TargetTalk

Abrishamian Nasser DC
385 State Route 24
Chester, NJ 07930
Phone : (908) 879-2800
Product & Services:
Chiropractors

Dwaine:

As far as I can tell MCP has an "improved rail system" for accurizing M9s/92FS guns for service pistol primarily. How this compares to a David Sams rail system (or USMC/USAMU rail system) is hard to tell.

I still don't understand the webiste claims that Brian won nationals last year with an MCP M1911; which they don't really come out and say directly but imply? Or what that has to do with their M9/92FS product?

Sorry about that i was trying to shed some "light" not "heat" but guess I failed big time.

You asked a very, very good question that is apparently hard to answer at this time.

You could just "Leg Out" with a Masaki M1911 . . . I thought the M9 would have been much better figured out by now (sheesh).

What is the going price for an MCP Beretta?

Having shot through a season with my Clark Custom 1911 Hardball, I have realized that the many thousands of rounds I have through my issue M9 have truly conformed my body to shoot the Beretta better than the 1911 (especially one-handed). I shot very well in the M9 EIC match at Perry, and did far more poorly with my match-grade 1911.

When I go back overseas, I may think about saving up for a custom 92.

Champion's Choice is selling the MCP Beretta for about $2200.

For what it's worth, I have a friend who has both a Tony Kidd Beretta and an MCP Beretta and prefers the MCP pistol. Someday I'd like to arrange some range time with him so I can do my own comparison!

I have a Mike Curtis 1911 Wad Gun. It was one of the last ones that he made. I know of Mike Curtis' background with the Marines and I know of his reputation in the Bullseye world. While the MCP pistols might be very good neither of the "gunsmiths" (can I REALLY call a Chiropractor a gunsmith?) have proven themselves yet. If I needed a new BE gun or a hardball gun would I go to MCP or one of the other proven names (Toyota, Masaki, etc.)?

. . . .

Having shot through a season with my Clark Custom 1911 Hardball, I have realized that the many thousands of rounds I have through my issue M9 have truly conformed my body to shoot the Beretta better than the 1911 (especially one-handed). I shot very well in the M9 EIC match at Perry, and did far more poorly with my match-grade 1911.

When I go back overseas, I may think about saving up for a custom 92.


I also shot the M9 match at Perry better than the Leg Match. In the leg match I USED my custom M9. My opinion, is it is the trigger pull. If you have put a lot of rounds through a rack grade M9 (or a 1911) as you and I have, you are conditioned for that heavy trigger. You will have just as much of a learning curve dealing with an M9 with a 4 lb trigger. Kate

Guest Twenty wrote:While the MCP pistols might be very good neither of the "gunsmiths" (can I REALLY call a Chiropractor a gunsmith?) have proven themselves yet.

You're quite right, I'm sure. Only after Brian Zins wins several more National Championships would I be confident shooting an MCP product <G>



Richard Ashmore

GOVTMODEL wrote:

Guest Twenty wrote:While the MCP pistols might be very good neither of the "gunsmiths" (can I REALLY call a Chiropractor a gunsmith?) have proven themselves yet.

You're quite right, I'm sure. Only after Brian Zins wins several more National Championships would I be confident shooting an MCP product <G>



Richard Ashmore

I would be no more comfortable buying a MCP product just because Brian Zins endorses it than I would a tennis racket just because Roger Federer used it. My results my differ. From what I have heard, the issue with both the MCP pistols and the David Sams pistols are the same. I say this as the owner of a David Sams 9MM. The question is: how long will they hold up when you have attached steel parts to a malable alumminum frame in order to achieve greater accuracy? Will the guns retain their accuracy as long as an all steel gun would? For Brian Zins I am sure that is no big deal. If the gun loses the ability to group, Dr. Nick will just send him a new one. Brian is after all, a paid endorser. For the rest of us, it may not be quite so simple. Time will tell. Kate

Some people call it the "Tubb Effect." (well, me and a couple of other guys.) G. David Tubb is a very accomplished rifle shooter. A while back he began endorising Pixie Dust. Everybody went out and bought Pixie Dust. Several years later, people discovered Pixie Dust wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

Nothing personal against the skills of G. David Tubb. He is a very bright and talented individual. Everyone has to make a living. Nothing wrong with that.

Not picking on David Tubb- maybe we should call it the "Michael Jordan Effect?" Remember the Hanes ads? Of course you do. It's the same exact thing. Or the "Matt Emmons effect" (see Eley endorsements). Or . . . the list is very long.

Look- it's easy for me to be all "ethical" about this; I'm not good enough to make money as a shooter. I earn a living as a scientist. If I claim X=Y I've got w a whole bunch of other people- smarter than me- who are paid to say "Bullshit! Prove It!"

The same can not be said for the "Celebrity Endorsement" biz.

I have no freakin idea whether the MCP guns are better- or worse- than typical off-the-shelf "competition" trash.

And, frankly, I haven't seen any actual evidence one way or another.

Jeeze if MCP just cleaned up their website it would be at least "comforting."

Go ahead, flame away . . .

Anonymous wrote:From what I have heard, the issue with both the MCP pistols and the David Sams pistols are the same. I say this as the owner of a David Sams 9MM. The question is: how long will they hold up when you have attached steel parts to a malable alumminum frame in order to achieve greater accuracy? Will the guns retain their accuracy as long as an all steel gun would?

Is this really an issue (M9 shooters having their pistols lose accuracy prematurely) or just a potential issue? I haven't heard any accounts of it happening.

Sure, aluminum is softer than steel, but that's hardly the only difference between an M9 and an M1911. The M9 is still a big, beefy pistol designed for hard use that shoots a lighter-recoiling round than an M1911. And if the steel inserts in the frame do come loose, wouldn't replacing them be a relatively simple fix?

I'd be more concerned about who's going to be around in a few years to fix a loose M9. When someone like Mike Curtis retires, there are still plenty of gunsmiths around who know how to tune up the M1911's he built. But when someone like David Sams retires, who's going to be there to tune up one of his M9's?

Wow, I seemed to have hit upon a popular initial posting! (perhaps my first!) I am interested in all the opinions, and I thank everone for participating. I guess, the reason for my interest in an accurate M9 has been finding a pistol with which I can win Legs. As Steve will know, I am an international style shooter that dabbles with Bullseye. Training with my massive .32 wadcutter, and my somewhat whimpier .177 wadcutter, ill equips me to deal with the mindboggling recoil of the .45 Hardball round. My thinking then moves toward something a little less beefy, the 9mm being the logical, and only choice. This past weekend I managed to win(gifted might be a better term)my second leg, both coming via borrowed 1911's. Maybe I should leave well enough alone and continue boosting 1911's from my buddies? However, I think someday, I will do more "Bullseye" shooting, so I will need a good service pistol. I will continue reading this post, and I thank everyone for their valued opinions. Dwaine.

Based upon my small "sample size" it seems that most Distinguished shooters became Distinguished using the 1911 and full power loads as opposed to lighter handloads or using the M9. M9 shooters that I know became Distinguished the old fashioned was and bought the M9 to have some fun with.

Aw, come on, Steve. The next thing you know, you'll be saying you can't buy points! ;-)

"Based upon my small "sample size" it seems that most Distinguished shooters became Distinguished using the 1911 and full power loads as opposed to lighter handloads or using the M9. M9 shooters that I know became Distinguished the old fashioned was and bought the M9 to have some fun with."
This is probably very true. The 1911 is a much more common gun and has a much longer history as a LEG gun then the Beretta. In a LEG match, points are earned by beating other non distinguished shooters. If all (or most of them) of them are shooting accurized 1911's, chances are good that is the gun you are going to earn the points with. However, my experience at Canton and Perry tells me that most of the shooters from the AMU and the other top shooters (who are in the LEG match to win it) at Perry and Canton, for the most part, are using the accurized Berettas. I shot next to Steve Rider on the line at Canton for the LEG match, He was standing next to James Henderson. Both were shooting accurized Beretta's. Henderson won the match. The people at the AMU have told me that one of the reasons that they have gone almost exclusively to the accurized Berettas for the LEG matches is fewer wrist and hand injuries that were apparantly becoming quite common with the shooters who were putting in heavy training on the 1911 with the hardball loads. As a woman I don't want to shoot a 1911 with hardball loads unless I have to. It is a no brainer. I don't want my wrist to take the pounding. Kate.

Anonymous wrote:"Based upon my small "sample size" it seems that most Distinguished shooters became Distinguished using the 1911 and full power loads as opposed to lighter handloads or using the M9. M9 shooters that I know became Distinguished the old fashioned was and bought the M9 to have some fun with."
This is probably very true. The 1911 is a much more common gun and has a much longer history as a LEG gun then the Beretta. In a LEG match, points are earned by beating other non distinguished shooters. If all (or most of them) of them are shooting accurized 1911's, chances are good that is the gun you are going to earn the points with. However, my experience at Canton and Perry tells me that most of the shooters from the AMU and the other top shooters (who are in the LEG match to win it) at Perry and Canton, for the most part, are using the accurized Berettas. I shot next to Steve Rider on the line at Canton for the LEG match; He was standing next to James Henderson. Both were shooting accurized Beretta's. Henderson won the match. The people at the AMU have told me that one of the reasons that they have gone almost exclusively to the accurized Berettas for the LEG matches is fewer wrist and hand injuries that were apparently becoming quite common with the shooters who were putting in heavy training on the 1911 with the hardball loads. As a woman I don't want to shoot a 1911 with hardball loads unless I have to. It is a no brainer. I don't want my wrist to take the pounding. Kate.

I apologize. That should have been "Steve Reiter"

I NEVER thought of that - wrist injuries! I shot my Rock River HB gun in a league once - using full power loads. It certainly put a strain on my wrist. Shooting in once in a while - no problem. On a regular basis carpal tunnel syndrome!

dhurt wrote:Howdy, Does anyone have experience with these pistols? I am especially interested in the 9mm. Thanks in advance, Dwaine.

I will pick up M92 from my FFL today. I will keep you posted.

It's funny how I just came upon this post. Nick is a person who has been and always will be in the background for many top shooters. You should ask the AMU who they had learned from on how to accurize their Beretta's. The USMC is actually calling him to find out and learn about his rail system. Yes they are available for both the M9 and 1911. It is difficult to explain without seeing it but they are VERY easy to replace after they have worn and NOT expensive at all. They can be done by the pistol owner them selves with a few basic tools.

I know for a fact that MANY of the top shooters have been using Nick's guns for many years now. A lot of them never divulged the information on who worked on their guns to keep it quiet.

I think that many people are just hesitant to new things but believe me Nick has been a gunsmith for many years during his service with the special forces and working and receiving his apprenticeship at HK in Europe.

He is a very humble man who would never brag to anyone about his experience. I think the simplest thing for people to do is pick up the phone and give him a call and ask what you want to ask him.

Reading some of these posts just made me want to let everyone know that Nick (MCP) is a guy who stands by his work and will never leave his customer's and friends high and dry with a problematic pistol. He actually finished an order for the AMU to provide his accurized M9's and 1911's. And he did it with no profit at all. He works WITH George. Nick needed help to fill his orders so both George and himself decided to try and mass produce to provide to the bullseye community. He was busy for quite some time since he was sending A LOT of his pistols (not overly accurized but more of the trigger work and reliabilty checks) into Iraq for many of the soldiers there.

If you are ever in the area (he actually lives a stone throw from Camelback Ski resort) give him a call and try to meet him.

Just my 25 cents. (since my post was kind of long 2 cents seemed too cheap!)

Nick is a person who has been and always will be in the background for many top shooters. You should ask the AMU who they had learned from on how to accurize their Beretta's.

Sams designed and built the AMU Berettas.

I've got nothing against Nick Abrishamian, people who own MCP pistols seem to like them. But I've heard so many crazy claims about him and his pistols that it causes me to wonder where these stories are coming from - e.g. he was a SF gunsmith?!?