TargetTalk

Great article from the HHG by the way.

Sounds like the writer was discussing his epiphanies over the ALIGN-ACCEPT = subconscious release method thathas been so umm "controversial" recently.

Align the sights.

Recognize, then Accept your settle.

Give your finger permission to release the shot.

(p.s. all of this happens in less than a second OBTW. It is described as a serial process, but is a holistic cluster of interacting behaviors. OBTW^2 the prerequisite for this working is that you have to already have perfected your trigger control. If the sights are disturbed at all during yoiur release of the shot [either alignment or aim] then you must correct that obvious flaw FIRST.)

We Now Return You To Your Regular Programming

Steve Swartz wrote:
Freepistol:

Please clarify what you are describing? I think you have an important (but maybe subtle) point about the difference between recovery and follow through but I'm not sure what you are saying exactly?

Steve,
I've only shot one .45 match, so I am not talking of experience, only theory. I posted the quote from the Hitchhiker article just to express another view on shot release. I think this will work with a short first stage trigger and eliminate fear of early over-the-frame shots. I've tried it with my .22 and I like it.
Ben

2650 Plus wrote:One day , out of desperation you will toss out every bit of the I can't do this and fire the round over the target.

Bill,

Lately, I've been getting the urge to toss the gun over the target! My practice scores for timed and rapid fire are about 98/100 in practice (average over my last 41 targets), and about 91/100 when shooting for record (my slow fire scores stunk last Monday also). It might be something as simple as the fact that I'm shooting for record after a full day of work on 6 hours of sleep, vs. practicing on the weekend after a good night's sleep. It also might be that the targets are at a different height when I practice vs. when I'm shooting for record, due to the different construction of the target boards. I shot poorly (along with just about everyone else) at the DSPC 2700 match a couple of weeks ago. Aside from the sun and the heat, we were actually shooting downhill, with the center of the 50 yard bullseyes being at about waist high relative to the firing line. It could also be that I'm turning into a head-case.

Whatever, I need to improve considerably, so that I can shoot good scores even when I'm having a bad day. Thanks for your expanded explanation. I'll give it a thorough try.

Regards,

Al B.

Mentioned here just briefly is your grip and over-all hold. I often refer to the result of a good proper grip as "recoil management". Recoil management starts with your preparations even before the trigger starts. Recoil management leads to solid hold, good stability, good alignment, good settle, good hold maintenance, good followthrough, and good recovery, and good start all over again. And good feedback to the mental side to aid Trigger Control.

Free pistol just a short note, you stopped reading too soon . About three paragraphs down the author described a final that he competed in using the exact concept for single shots that I described for sustained fire. There is nothing wrong about starting early on the trigger pressure. This frees your mind to concentrate uninterupted on sight allignment.And that is the crux of controlled sustained fire. Good Shooting Bill Horton Oh yes read JackS about NPA

2650 Plus wrote:Free pistol just a short note, you stopped reading too soon . About three paragraphs down the author described a final that he competed in using the exact concept for single shots that I described for sustained fire. There is nothing wrong about starting early on the trigger pressure. This frees your mind to concentrate uninterupted on sight allignment.And that is the crux of controlled sustained fire. Good Shooting Bill Horton Oh yes read JackS about NPA

Oh ah Bill, if you refer to me above and before, that is Jack "H"

Some people say that is short for "Jock Itch"

:)

This is the reference I wanted to point out:

My plan was to start my trigger squeeze with the Range Officer’s count of “one”, just before “Start.” Under no circumstances would I stop squeezing until the shot broke. In every case I was first to fire, and on the sixth shot I was in danger of taking an early shot, as I fired before the echo of “Start” had died out. That was a ten, by the way. I ended with a 100.6 for the Final, the highest on the day. It took courage that was akin to desperation to have the faith in my hold and simply produce a good technical release. Since that day I have often tried but never succeeded in regaining that magic for more than a few shots at a time.

Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:Free pistol just a short note, you stopped reading too soon . About three paragraphs down the author described a final that he competed in using the exact concept for single shots that I described for sustained fire. There is nothing wrong about starting early on the trigger pressure. This frees your mind to concentrate uninterupted on sight allignment.And that is the crux of controlled sustained fire. Good Shooting Bill Horton Oh yes read JackS about NPA

Bill,
I printed that article last fall and have read it more than 30 times. I tried that exact technique you reference and it works fine with my air pistol with a long first stage, but I couldn't do it with my 162 free pistol. I settled on a technique where I get in the aiming area and start an uninterupted trigger movement before the sights settle. When practicing, I think of aligning the sights----the gun is going to fire. It worked in by second ever air pistol match with all the holes in the black, but I was having a hard time finding the 10 ring. I was having elbow trouble and haven't shot seriously since that match. I need more practice and I'm feeling better now.
Thanks, Bill, I appreciate all your posts and have increased my understanding of pistol shooting as a result of your willingness to share.
Ben

A comment on terminology. Bow shooters release the arrow. Pistol shooters apply steadily increasing pressure to the trigger until the pistol fires. There is very little simular about the two other than some thought processes and the attempt to hold the bow and pistol as still as you can during the period of the aiming process. Does any one remember where this cross over terminology crept into shooting ? This is not important I am merely curious. Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:A comment on terminology. Bow shooters release the arrow. Pistol shooters apply steadily increasing pressure to the trigger until the pistol fires. There is very little simular about the two other than some thought processes and the attempt to hold the bow and pistol as still as you can during the period of the aiming process. Does any one remember where this cross over terminology crept into shooting ? This is not important I am merely curious. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Bill,

Back when I was into archery, I shot unlimited class, which meant that I used a compound bow and a trigger release. I applied steadily increasing pressure on the trigger until the bow fired, albeit with my thumb rather than my trigger finger.

With Olympic style archery, using a recurve bow and releasing with the fingers, you use a 'clicker'. This is a piece of spring steel that is attached to the bow such that at full draw it rests just behind the tip of the arrow. When you have a good sight picture, you tighten your fingers a little bit more, which draws the arrow back a tiny fraction of an inch further, past the clicker. The clicker is released and clicks against the frame of the bow. The shooter, through training, is conditioned to release the arrow when he hears the click. The clicker is the standard and most simple means of curing 'target panic' i.e., the phenomenon where the shooter releases the shot as soon as the sight gets near the bullseye. This particular problem doesn't seem to occur with compound bows.

I once shot an arrow through my bedroom wall while adjusting the clicker on my recurve bow. The clicker was set for too short a draw length. I overdrew, the clicker clicked, and I shot. Once you're trained, this becomes a totally automatic process. In a sense, this tightening of the fingers is very similar to increasing the pressure of your finger on the trigger.

Also, in archery, you don't 'grip the bow, unlike with pistols. The bow is held tight against your relaxed bow hand by the tension on the bow string. You wear a wrist strap that attaches the bow loosely to the wrist and catches the bow after the release. With a trigger, release, the action of the trigger finger or thumb is much more pure, in that the other fingers aren't responsible or holding on to the bow.

I'm not sure where yor reference to archery comes from, however.

regards,

Al B.

2650 Plus wrote:A comment on terminology. Bow shooters release the arrow. Pistol shooters apply steadily increasing pressure to the trigger until the pistol fires. There is very little simular about the two other than some thought processes and the attempt to hold the bow and pistol as still as you can during the period of the aiming process. Does any one remember where this cross over terminology crept into shooting ? This is not important I am merely curious. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Actually, Bill, I use a mechanical release aide when I shoot my bow that has a trigger. I squeeze the trigger until the bow "fires" the arrow.

I'm sure I can't tell you when or how "release" crept into shooting, however, I think of both the bow and the firearm as having potential energy. The pistol trigger pressure is applied until the sear "releases" the potential energy of the firing pin spring. That kinetic energy of the firing pin impacts the primer, . . etc. There is a "release" of energy in both instances of when the bullet or the arrow is fired. I think I first started using the term when instructing junior rifle shooters in the early 80s.

I can identify with you on terminology. It seems there is nothing pure about any aspect of life anymore, however, I don't want to move this thread any farther in that direction and deleted my gripes.
Ben

A comanchee Indian [ A distant relative ] Was teaching me to use a bow and arrow and used the term "Release the arrow" It wasn't zen but he never went hungry. Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:A comanchee Indian [ A distant relative ] Was teaching me to use a bow and arrow and used the term "Release the arrow" It wasn't zen but he never went hungry. Good Shooting Bill Horton

In archery, the fingers (or the mechanical release aid) release the bow string. In pistol shooting, the sear releases the hammer. At that point, in both cases, the weapon fires.

Regards,

Al B.