TargetTalk

. . . thanks for the kind words . . . the problem though is this:

Once you "break the code" on making perfect alignment 100% consistent during the settle (and this my freinds is a ginormous buttload of work in itself! Even a "True Believer" like me will backslide into trying to aim and align and manipulate hte trigger all at the same time, consciously- AAARRRGH! You will always be working against your "nature" to focus properly) . . . once you "break the code" on this you will still have other things to work on.

Here's the conundrum.

By properly focusing on perfect ALIGNMENT during an acceptable SETTLE, then apply constant, smooth pressure tot he Trigger (and break the trigger perfectly), all you will have achieved is this: You Are Shooting Up To The Limits of Your Potential Right Now.

In order to INCREASE your POTENTIAL you still have to work on things like hold, grip, stance etc. all that other stuff. Through FOCUSED, INTENSE TRAINING (not practice).

Perfect shot execution is a NECESSARY but not SUFFICIENT condition for shooting a 600/600.

1. Shoot to your potential
2. Increase your potential
3. Repeat

Sigh.

Steve

Steve Swartz

Center hold is only my opinion, Sub six is yours. An opinion supported by another opinion and repeated an infinant number of times is still an opinion. I would be willing to change mine if I find that I can shoot more tens using sub six as oposed to center hold, But not because somone else thinks sub six is better. Am I willing to try to retrain to this method in order to test this [ To me unproven] theory? Fat chance. First, one of you sub six shooters has to beat me. Then I would have to consider the posibility that just maybe it is worth trying. Settling the pistol in the center of a round bullseye is an easy and natural method of guiding the bullet to its destination [The ten ring] and does not over complicate the shooting process. Try it , you may like it. Good shooting Bill Horton

I was rather surprised a few months ago shooting an off the shelf 92FS Beretta at 50yds. The stock fixed sight and trigger left a lot to be desired. But it grouped fairly well. To get the fixed sights the closest to the ten ring, I had to hold center which was something I never had done before. So I tried some center holds. I fired about a 9 ring group on the average, but still not quite centered.

Later on with an adjustable sight installed plus a much smoother trigger, I fired more at 50yds using my long time sub six aim method.

The grouping either way was roughly the same. I might have gotten a little advantage during the center holding because the new to me method enhanced my concentration on it.

The key is concentration.

And the last few posts here by Steve are fabulously right on.

Sorry Bill the focus of the thread changed a bit back there;.

My last post applies equally well regardless of where you are "aiming at" (center, 6, sub-6, frame, above the target, etc.). Sorry about that- I'll get back on track here.

The pros and cons of center vs sub exist, regardless of my (or your) *opinions* on the matter.

If you are trying to line up three objects at three different focal planes, it will be harder to 1) focus on the front sight; and 2) focus on keeping front and rear sights aligned. For some-many-most people. Maybe your eyes are different. But for (the majority?) some folks, the more clutter you place in the visual field the harder it will be to separate individual objects.

Not that a person can't sort it all out (obviously, those who use center hold successfully *are* sorting it out), just that it is harder.

The second problem with trying to line up three objects in three different focal planes is related to separating (physically, mentally) the two tasks of "Alignment" and "Aim." You are right- with a center hold, your eye/brain will "naturally" be trying to line up all three objects. I don't assume that this is a good thing. Quite the contrary- I consider this to be a bad thing. For some-many-most folks, better results are attained when they *don't* concentrate on trying to aim and align at the some time . . . better results are achieved by concntrating on alignment, settling the aligned sights, and letting the shot break when properly aligned and settled.

Again, not it can't be dealt with (obviously people who successfully use center hold are able to deal with it), just that it's generally harder for a lot of folks.

If you are interested in learning about either of these phenomena, literature is out there. Yur'Yev figured this out several decades ago and has an excellent discussion of the physiologics of it all in his book.

People are always believing a lot of stuff that turns out to be wrong. Repeating any belief over and over (or the opposite) isn't what's important. Conducting experiments and properly inferring causality from the results of those experiments is the key.

One of the problems with shooting (at a world class level or not) is that so much of this is perceptual. And studies of human performance based on perceptual (subjective) experiences is danged hard to do well. But Yur'Yev had some distinct advantages over many more modern researchers.

Steve Swartz

[Jeeze Louise Bill, I'm not making all this up just to piss you off! If center hold is working for you, far be it from me to try to dissuade you away from it.]