TargetTalk

I removed A LOT of steel from the grip mount, and plan to do a bit more boring on the grip mount, there is plenty to take out, just afraid of vibration in the future, so I am going step by step.
Some people just cut it off and do a top release lever, don't want to do that yet.

again, how much weight reduction (in grams) does the grip mount/frame drilling get you. I'd love to know if it's significant or minor.

paolo, try putting an ounce or so of movable weight on that flatbar youve got sticking out of your gun. This will allow you to adjust the center of gravity almost anywhere you like.

The weight reduction is significant, take your grip out and see for yourself how much steel is in there, that is not functional, except for weight reasons.
My reasoning is take as much out as possible, you can always put it back with the addition of some lead.

Regading the center of gravity, that is what I did, filled some 9 mm bullets with lead, and then just move them to where they feel best.

Paulo, by significant, are we talking about 1 gram , 5 grams, 50 grams, more?? Can you give me an estimate or your best guess?

Judge for yourself, and as the white lines hint at, there is more dead weight that is going bye bye, in my gun.

Paulo why don't you just put side lever cocking on your Toz, it takes most of the frame you don't need out, much simpler, less machining.

weight reduction achieved by going sidecocker is 0.5 lbs,or 215 grams for the metrically minded. In the pics on page 2,of the scale,the "before" weight was 2lb 1 oz.An easy conversion for anyone with a drill and a hacksaw,a thread tap or two,and a file....no CNC on the conversion!!! All the work in my pictures was done by hand,and took about 3 hours

How do you attach the grip after removing the grip mount and lever?
I am still vague on the process to lock the top lever?!
I tried to use carbon fiber on a IZH 46M and I learned that carbon fiber has strengths and weaknesses.

[quote="paulo"]How do you attach the grip after removing the grip mount and lever? .....glass bed the grip to the action along the square edges,and use the original screw holes in the lower rear of the action

I am still vague on the process to lock the top lever?!....see the ball bearing/spring detent system at the rear lowest point of the action....the ball indexes in two slight grooves in the stub from the old lever

I tried to use carbon fiber on a IZH 46M and I learned that carbon fiber has strengths and weaknesses......the point loads present in the compression stroke on a IZH-46 are probably 100 times that present in closing the Toz-35

I use the grip mount to change the vertical and lateral angle on the grip, and cutting it would not be to my interest at this time.

paulo wrote:"glass bed the grip to the action along the square edges"
can you better describe what this means, or show us.

the action is a rectangular block,geometrically,once you've chopped off the excess metal. I removed a small extra volume from the grips,where the action sits in the grip,along the rear vertical edges,and the lower horizontal edges of the action.Then a minimal bead of J-B weld,or similar, on the grip,release agent on the metal work,insert the upper grip screws,and there you go... One needs to be careful with a one piece grip,not to glue the action in permanently,as it can be imagined. Doing this with 2-piece grips is simple.This ensures when the grip mounting screws are secured,the grip and action are not loose. As an afterthought,an rake adjustment screw as is provided in the Rink grips,would add an extra layer of locking tension.

Had a toz35 cut down to reduce weight...

Had a one piece grip made that screwed on to the rear of the frame (drill and tap a hole). I can still mount standard toz35 grips via the side mount holes in the frame but you only get one screw on each side.

grip mount

Had a friend drill and turn a brass bar then cut it into two different lengths for two different weights. It is slotted on the top to fit the front sight post. I can use one or both and move them wherever I want on the barrel. It uses an allen screw on the bottom to attach. This is similar to the only other toz35 weight I had seen.

Does moving or changing the amount of weight change the point of impact?

paulo wrote:Like your weight idea.
The reason I had to reduce weight was to make it about the same as my air pistol.
My arm was hurting by the 40th shot, in free pistol, and quality of shooting went down at that point, I tried aerobic and the funny ball but the gun was still too heavy for my comfort.
That might not be the right idea, but I am experimenting to find what works for me.

Get a weight, about 2.5 lbs or up to 3 lbs, a little heavier than your pistol. Stand in front of a clock with a second hand. Raise your right hand with the weight in it to the shooting position and hold for 30 seconds. Then change hands and do the same with your left hand. Now put the weight back into your right hand and do the same for 35 seconds. Now the left for 35 seconds. Continue with each hold 5 seconds longer than the last until you are at a 60 seconds hold on each side... now the tough part... work your way back down to a 30 second hold reducing by 5 seconds each time (60, 55, 50... 30).

Always do both shoulders, it gives the opposite shoulder a time of rest between "shots" and you don't get a strong side and weak side. This is a great off season exercise to increase stamina and can be used with shorter hold times during the season. You won't have problems with your shoulder getting tired during the shooting season and your hold will get steadier.

have fun,

david

The barrel weight pictured above is exactly what my buddy who shot a Toz 35 in the Atlanta Olympics did. (except yours looks a whole lot nicer). His weighed in at approx. 1.25 ozs.

Free pistol asked; Does moving or changing the amount of weight change the point of impact?

This type, being attached to the barrel, can have a slight affect on point of impact for two reasons. When moved up and down the barrel, it can change the harmonic properties in the barrel causing VERY slight adjustments to POI. Bench rest shooters use a similar device to "dial in" the groups on their very accurate benchrest rifles. This harmonic variance is the reason I chose to put a weight bar under the barrel not on the barrel. (I also did not have a buddy who could do the machining for me. My barrel weight can be seen earlier in this thread around page 7)

The second effect, which applies to all barrel weights regardless of mounting point, is that they will slightly reduce the muzzle flip of the pistol. Less muzzle flip means less movement of the bore center while the bullet travels down the bore.

Both of the barrel weight configurations add stability to your hold. These are pluses in my book and the primary reason to add a barrel weight.[/img]

I believe Neal's gun came with the weight. I handed his to the guy who made mine. My 1964 toz35 looked like it had been used with a similar weight (light wear on the bluing) but none of the toz35's I have purchased or seen other than Neal's came with a weight.

I am sure the location of the weight will affect the center of moment for the recoil and therefore the recoil movement in your hand. There might be an optimum position for the weight relative to your grip but that would be an individual variable.

Given what Benchrest shooters are trying to achieve vs. the size of the 10 ring on a FP target, I doubt the harmonics of the barrel is relevant. The group size difference would be such a small fraction that it would be lost in the wobble area. My toz35's will shoot around 1/2 inch CTC with the right ammunition. Would .05 inches make a difference with a 2 inch 10 ring? Would 0.1 inches make a difference? Most people can't hold a 9 ring in their wobble area.

david

agentr wrote: Free pistol asked; Does moving or changing the amount of weight change the point of impact?

I don't know if it changes the point of impact. We never tested for that. I can't see how it would affect your shooting unless you were going to change the position of the weight during a match... Who would ever do that?

david