TargetTalk

I have one.

newenglandairgun wrote: every 15-20 shots I get a misfire (or misair). not sure what is happening, the pellet is still in the breach and it sounds like it tried to shoot. Recocking without doing anything else it then shoots.

I had an identical problem and others here are experiencing the same thing with their FAS 6004.
I dropped by Airguns of Arizona earlier this year and spoke with them. They did not act surprised to hear of my problem. They test fired it several times. When it misfired, he opened the breach, seated the pellet deeper with a ball point pen and the next shot worked. He suggested seating the pellets deeper in the breech or trying pellets with a smaller diameter skirt.
The traditional pellet seating tools do not work with the FAS because it has a hooded breech so the tool is blocked. I don't like using the ball point pen as a tool because it forces the pellet at an angle which must have some effect on accuracy. I made this seating tool from a screw and scrap of aluminum. I pointed the screw so it would push against the waist of the pellet and not the skirt. It is short enough to fit inside the tin of pellets so it can't scratch up the gun in transit.
Since I have been using this tool to seat the pellets, have not had any misfires with it.

Very educational thread.

Think I'll stay with my Gamo, thankee very much

Why? Are you too lazy to stick it in a hole and wiggle it around?

Rover wrote:Why? Are you too lazy to stick it in a hole and wiggle it around?

Rover
We really need to get you some help!

SPPcoach wrote: I had an identical problem and others here are experiencing the same thing with their FAS 6004.
......
Since I have been using this tool to seat the pellets, have not had any misfires with it.

OK so using a seating tool makes it cope more frequently but there is fundamentally something wrong here. You should not need to seat pellets in an FAS 60(0)4
I can think of several reasons (may also be mentioned elsewhere)
1. Pellets too large - try a tin of R10 4.49 7grain pellets
2. Breech seal poor - move the barrel a tad towards the breech, Check breech face which is the one feature of 6004 that can let it down where the 604 has a machined face.
3. Valve occasionally sticks. Can be dirt or sometimes the hammer spring cross shaft can break.
4. Seal leak somewhere. To test, cock without a pellet and fire immediately. Cock again and wait 2 minutes and fire. Is it the same bang or noticeably quieter?
With 3. and 4. I suggest a strip, clean, polish the valve stem, lube and reseal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3a1Ma2fcg4

TenMetrePeter wrote:OK so using a seating tool makes it cope more frequently

It is not just 'more frequently.' Pellet seating is a sure fire cure in mine.

TenMetrePeter wrote:1. Pellets too large - try a tin of R10 4.49 7grain pellets

I think that your number 1 is the primary factor. When seating pellets with my pellet seater I notice that it takes considerable pressure to overcome the initial resistance of getting the skirt of the pellet in the barrel. Once the skirt is in, pushing the pellet further is easy. I have not tried the pellets you mentioned. I have on the shelf R10's, Meister's, H&N econ, H&N plinker and some Crosmans. The results among those brands are consistent. Another poster put up a picture of how the breech is different between the old 604 and the new 6004. The old breech has a noticeable forcing cone like a revolver barrel. The newer barrels do not have that.

TenMetrePeter wrote:2. Breech seal poor - move the barrel a tad towards the breech, Check breech face which is the one feature of 6004 that can let it down where the 604 has a machined face.

2. Maybe. I haven't moved the barrel and I don't intend to. Seating the pellets has always worked. Moving the barrel has a downside risk. Without the tools to properly measure the gap and have a way to reset it back I risk making it worse. It is working now.

TenMetrePeter wrote:3. Valve occasionally sticks. Can be dirt or sometimes the hammer spring cross shaft can break.

3 & 4. When shot and it 'misfires' the mechanics are very audible. The air discharge is very noticeable but the pellet does not come out. If I immediately open the breech, you can hear a BIT of air escape when the action is opened. This tells me the breech seal is doing its job. It did hold pressure when the valve released. If I then use the pellet seater, the pistol fires correctly the next time. It is good to know about the vulnerability of the cross shaft. Thanks.

TenMetrePeter wrote:4. Seal leak somewhere. To test, cock without a pellet and fire immediately. Cock again and wait 2 minutes and fire. Is it the same bang or noticeably quieter?

That is something to try. Cock it and then chronograph it after waiting a few minutes to see if it has lost velocity.
I have not disassembled it. I will watch the video you posted. Thanks for that.

Yes if it's working for you 100% then no need for further action, it's just I haven't come across it in quite a lot of 604s, though I have never shot a 6004. It's a nice tool you made though.
I didn't mention a tight lead-in to the barrel but that's specialist job. I did once ease the breech rifling in a Webley Junior's new barrel with one of those taper reamers (to make tin holes bigger), but that's a bit naughty. Worked tho!
Maybe take in the video for when it needs servicing next!

" I did once ease the breech rifling in a Webley Junior's new barrel with one of those taper reamers (to make tin holes bigger), but that's a bit naughty. Worked tho!"

Isn't that a specialists job? I would have used a tapered stone for a Dremel. (Without the Dremel.)

The 6004 has a tight barrel and low power. Hard pellets cause a problem. I use JSB 4.48 in mine with no issues.

Kevin

Rover wrote:" I did once ease the breech rifling in a Webley Junior's new barrel with one of those taper reamers (to make tin holes bigger), but that's a bit naughty. Worked tho!"

Isn't that a specialists job? I would have used a tapered stone for a Dremel. (Without the Dremel.)

Yes like I say it is really a specialist job but if you pay 5 quid for a Webley Junior and 15 for the barrel you just have to hack saw and file to length and use what you have to hand. Wish I'd kept it.

kevinkunkle wrote:The 6004 has a tight barrel and low power. Hard pellets cause a problem. I use JSB 4.48 in mine with no issues.

Kevin

Is what I think may be the problem with some of them.

I'm sure the smaller pellets help, but I think the real problem is the breech needs to be opened enough so that the pellets can be seated flush with the breech. The pellet skirts are always wider than the head.

I don't see any problem with opening the breech a trifle. It will not effect anything and you need not be a rocket scientist to do the job.

The problem can be overcome by simply not buying pistols that do not meet manufacturers claims that they will work without the owner having to manufacture tools.
sizing tools/ ball point pens/ Dremel tools.....GET REAL ! .....get your money back and buy a pistol that meets the design brief......it works by inserting a pellet......every time !

That's reasonable....spend five times as much so you (maybe) don't have to do a two minute tweak.

My point is that no tweaks should be required to a new 2016 CNC made AP, especially by people who in some cases are not great at tweaking.

Best remedy is not to finance the Manufactures of sub standard pistols and instead pay the money to companies that produce products that work.

Would the Military pay money to Arms Manufacturers for a product that had soldiers at the front line borrowing ball point pens to make the gun work......HELL NO ! .....So why should we ?

Pistol shooting is one of the most affordable sports around and wasting time with inexpensive pieces of equipment that "almost make the cut" is throwing good money after bad.

They probably don't CNC the barrel - usually these are bought in from the likes of Lothar Walther but barrel suppliers usually do a better job than this.

deadeyedick wrote:The problem can be overcome by simply not buying pistols that do not meet manufacturers claims that they will work without the owner having to manufacture tools.
sizing tools/ ball point pens/ Dremel tools.....GET REAL ! .....get your money back and buy a pistol that meets the design brief......it works by inserting a pellet......every time !

Totally agree.

While I have not had anything to do with the 6004, I have with other Chiappa made guns and all I can say is they are crap!

I've noticed that the only haters of the 6004 are the people that don't have one.

The owners of the pistols knew what they were getting at that price point and are satisfied with their purchase.

Shooterer wrote:I've noticed that the only haters of the 6004 are the people that don't have one.

The owners of the pistols knew what they were getting at that price point and are satisfied with their purchase.

I have read most of the thread and yes scornful prejudice can come from owners of top end guns but the detailed disappointing faults, along with the praise, comes from owners. Those pictures of a barrel totally lacking a lead-in chamfer come from an owner.

Shooterer wrote:I've noticed that the only haters of the 6004 are the people that don't have one.

The owners of the pistols knew what they were getting at that price point and are satisfied with their purchase.

I had one and sold it after a few thousand pellets. My issues were it being under powered, pellet diameter issues and a trigger that 90% of the available adjustments created a bad trigger.

It had its high points but the negatives got annoying.