TargetTalk

Alexander wrote:
Because of having read the actual rules and engaging your brain. Alternatively, one may lick boots.

Alexander

Smartarse reply, but meaningless. You obviously haven't read the ISSF interpretation of their rules. Or sorry perhaps you have and their interpretations are unlawful <sic>.

Well you're entitled to your own opinions, no matter how wrong they may be.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Alexander wrote:Because of having read the actual rules

you have and their interpretations are unlawful

[_] You have not understood.
[X] You have understood now.

Alexander

I think Misny and others have it right. We are or should be ambassadors of our sport. The anti's will not change their minds. The people who can be influenced are in the middle, they have no opinion either way. They dont know anything of us. A good impression goes a long way. Thats why I have participated in newspaper and magazine articles. You gain a lot of respect, good sport publicity and yes a few hate you anyways. Thats not my problem.

Too often I look at match pictures and think what a motley bunch. Kurt comes in looking like he just got off his shift on the lube rack at Larry's etc etc. Many images match bad attitudes and that counts against us too.

I see the old B&W pics of 1950's and 60's shooters at some of the ranges I go to and think "Hey, now they had some class"

Being well dressed at the airport (traveling with guns) is a BIG deal.

Bruce Martindale wrote: I see the old B&W pics of 1950's and 60's shooters at some of the ranges I go to and think "Hey, now they had some class"

Being well dressed at the airport (traveling with guns) is a BIG deal.

I used to worry about dressing up to go flying. Eventually I realized that I might as well dress for comfort. Why be uncomfortable for potentially days on end to conform to some perceived expectation?

In the business world, whilst I appreciate the first impressions etc of proper business attire, in a hiring decision, gven a choice between a well dressed dunce, and a sloppily dressed genius who can deliver results, I'll take sloppy over neat any day.

Alexander wrote:

RobStubbs wrote:

Alexander wrote:Because of having read the actual rules

you have and their interpretations are unlawful

[_] You have not understood.
[X] You have understood now.

Alexander

This poster 'Alexander' is reducing this thread to a series of rule breaking smart arse insults to other posters - yet another thread that has outstayed its usefulness.

Joker, I would be glad to hear that I have hit you by one of my comments, but I am afraid that I did not even aim. Such merely accidental hits should not give me a bonus. :-)

STUPID!! Obviously the ISSF has been taken over by the same smart people who run the NRA.

Does anyone know if USAShooting is going to enforce this?

gwsb wrote:STUPID!! Obviously the ISSF has been taken over by the same smart people who run the NRA.

Does anyone know if USAShooting is going to enforce this?

Assuming that the US Nationals are the highest class of competition being run by them, it would seem a little absurd to insist that all shooters compete and or collect awards whilst dressed in National Governing Body provided tracksuits or the like. Given that only a handful of shooters are in the National team/development squad.

I'm assuming that as long as you aren't wearing daisy duke style shorts common sense would be used.

I can understand and sympathize with the ISSF position. At the very least, ISSF sees itself in a struggle for relevance and a fight for its very survival. Don't believe me-take a look at the situation for yourself.

I just rejoined USAS after years of lapse and was issued a new number just above 1000. Now that doesn't sound like much on the surface, but considering the sequential nature of those numbers, that means that, including the juniors involved, as well as people who have not renewed, moved on, etc.-the United States has less than 1,000 people competing within the USA Shooting system. Figure in the well-known financial and leadership issues of the USOC, plus USAS' own financial problems, I don't know if Olympic-style shooting can survive in the US without at least an alignment with the NRA.

I've been watching the activity regarding clothing and ISSF and, if one. reads the minutes of the last couple meetings on the subject, they'd know that the IOC is raising some serious questions about the legitimacy of the participation of Shooting Sports in the Summer Olympics. When IOC officials (as well as the viewing world) see 'athletes' wearing shoes so stiff as to prevent proper walking, posture enhancing coats, and pants fortified to the point they have trouble bending, the legitimacy of such apparel is in question.

With that said, we're now faced with a new set of issues involving denim, camoflage, etc. If I were a shooting sports spectator and I saw someone wearing camoflage or something similar on or near a firing line, being from the Deep South, I'd come to the conclusion they're either a Redneck or in the Military. Depending on location, we can very quickly dismiss the Redneck, leaving us with the idea that someone affiliated with the legitimate Armed/Defense Forces of any nation is competing in some amateur shooting event. I think this point has been discussed at both the ISSF and IOC level. At the very least, I see this specific move on the part of the ISSF as saying don't make it so obvious.

If we take a look at the recent past and immediate future, the Olympics don't have the same aura the once did, particularly for shooting. Greece is fundamentally bankrupt from the 2004 games; shooting sports are virtually non-existent in China due to their ban on firearms; the 2012 games will be held in a country where its own pistol team cannot practice in country because handguns are illegal. Our sport is an endangered species and the ISSF is doing its best to save amateur shooting sports.

Personally, I've been known to practice in track pants and shirt. I've been known to compete in goalie shirts and shorts. I don't see the big deal-they're asking us to dress like we're participating in a sport.

weilers wrote:I can understand and sympathize with the ISSF position. At the very least, ISSF sees itself in a struggle for relevance and a fight for its very survival. Don't believe me-take a look at the situation for yourself.

I just rejoined USAS after years of lapse and was issued a new number just above 1000. Now that doesn't sound like much on the surface, but considering the sequential nature of those numbers, that means that, including the juniors involved, as well as people who have not renewed, moved on, etc.-the United States has less than 1,000 people competing within the USA Shooting system.

Weilers .... it's not as bad as you think ... USAS began re-using old numbers just over a year ago. My number is in the 31xxx range and we have junior shooters with numbers in the 115xxx. Why the re-use, I don't know, but there's way more than 1000 that are members that shoot rifle, pistol & shotgun ... plus some that are not active shooters, but are coaches, volunteers, etc.

Money will always be an issue with the shooting sports, and USAS with it's limited funds does (in my opinion) a pretty darned good job of trying to give all the disciplines and "age groups" within their primary focus of bringing home Olympic medals

this comes from a country boy mind and it more personal thought on the subect than anything else..

we have take the use of firearms out of the person life at a early age group .

most of the shooter here grew up handleing and useing some form of a firearm at a early age group ..now days because of the stimga attched to a firearm most people do not know or want to handle one ..

back many years ago you had rifle teams in high school and jr high ..so the childern where exposed to the firearms at a early age this was all through out the world of shooting in diff country they are on this planet of our ..even the most libral city like New York city schools at the time had a rifle team ..

but over the time you had the so called people who found that have a child learn how to use a firearm in a safe manner and knew the rules of firearm safety. we have gotten away from that ..we have basic forgotten how to have a child learn basic safety from firearms to shop safety in schools for the most part the child is beening told that unsafe or no that is wrong in turns makes a child think why ..

instead of takeing the child by the hand and leading him into the world of useing a firearm safety ..we have let the world of movies and cops shows and other things teach a child how to use a firearm ..

when i was growing up the rifle class in the pe was the best thing in the school year ..because you got to go shoot at the local back range at our school and the rifle coach could check you out and when it came time for come into the rifle team ..he had a good idea who was good enough and who was not .

so that my take on the subect

Cheer up, Weilers.

In the United States, the international disciplines are rare. The only participants are people who either have the Olympic bug or who are drawn to exotic sports. If not, you can find NRA bullseye, IPSC, IDPA, etc. events a whole lot easier.

Overseas, the ISSF events ARE shooting.

Let me draw a parallel from the black powder community. There are about 100 shooters participating in the MLAIC disciplines in the USA. Everybody else is shooting N-SSA or NMLRA events - it they compete at all.

Over in Europe, the MLAIC events are the normal fare...and the German national championships had several THOUSAND competitors. And that's the tip of the iceberg.

So don't extrapolate from our own warped situation. You won't get the right results.

Mike M. wrote: Overseas, the ISSF events ARE shooting.


So don't extrapolate from our own warped situation. You won't get the right results.

HA HA

Dream on, In any country that allows IPSC pistol shooting this is where all the new members go. ISSF is only top where it's all that is allowed.

Also, you might note that most of the top ISSF shooters are the same ones that were around 10 (or in some cases 20) years ago. That does not indicate a growing sport.

You OBVIOUSLY have never worn a Regimental tie. (GASP!) -followed by- (~EYE ROLL~) Pity.

I'm joking.

Imagine Larry the Cable Guy in his normal outfit - with a Regimental tie on. Then again, I don't think Larry could get through a competition without complaining or talking to other competitors, and that would get him ejected.

What's wrong with packing a pair of pants and a jacket in case you win? I know of shooters who have won big at Perry and were totally suprised they'd won - and you could tell by how they dressed.

but you people do know he right ..when going to a fund raiseing drinner one time for a local school shooting sports program .we looked like a bunch of local hicks who came to town for a sat night ..instead of showing up with the basic of a sport coat and tie and dress slacks ..most of the people looked like a bunch of farms who came to town for sat night ..

i came that night in a semi dress up in sport coat and dress slacks and tie and dress shoes ..most of the people there where not really dress for a fund raiseing event my wife was semi dress up along with my step daughter also ..one person did make one comment and it was at least you showed up dress nicely ..he was the area over all director for fund raiseing . ..

Award ceremonies and other formal occasions are a totally different affair. If ISSF wanted to pass the word that shooters were to appear in their best for those, I doubt anyone would object.

weilers wrote:When IOC officials (as well as the viewing world) see 'athletes' wearing shoes so stiff as to prevent proper walking

...they should be better informed so that they know that the shoes do not prevent proper walking; athletes choose to walk in an unusual fashion to extend the life of the boots because athletes aren't made of money...

I agree with sparks, I tend to walk 'funny' so as not to flex the sole of the shoe too much which then reduces their effectiveness. Having said that, they are quite difficult to walk normally in. I have been experimenting with some cheap trainers recently and have not noticed any drop in scores or stance problems over a 60 shot match.

JSB

Sparks wrote:

weilers wrote:When IOC officials (as well as the viewing world) see 'athletes' wearing shoes so stiff as to prevent proper walking

...they should be better informed so that they know that the shoes do not prevent proper walking; athletes choose to walk in an unusual fashion to extend the life of the boots because athletes aren't made of money...

A Is hokey, or any other skater also have a funny walk.
Who is to determine what sport clothes is??
Golf is a sport, they use regular pants, never tracksuits, why should we?
We don't compete on a running field?
I haven't heard any arguments that could convince me that the clothing rule worth anything, other than annoying the shooters.

Does any body know if the ISSF 'archers' wear special clothing/shoes etc.
JSB