TargetTalk

Penman53-I sympathize with you. The advantage of this,or any forum,is the fact that we, the members, can warn others of unethical or abusive business practices-if they exist. It is almost like the Better Business Bureau for our sport. The problem,as I see it,is that enough of our members don't relate these sad stories to the general membership-as well as praise.

Word to the "uninitiated": Dealing with master pistolsmiths -- any of them -- isn't like going to your local Gander Mountain to have an 870's firing pin replaced. It's more like commissioning Monet to do a painting for you. It takes a long, long time to produce these things. I have several custom pistol "masterpieces" and none of them was received in less than a year. You need a good deal of patience if you want to enter the custom pistol market.

I hate "censorship" but maybe our host should consider editing the recent comments about Dr. Nick, given the totality of circumstances surrounding penman53's (now successful) transaction.

Anonymous wrote:Word to the "uninitiated": Dealing with master pistolsmiths -- any of them -- isn't like going to your local Gander Mountain to have an 870's firing pin replaced. It's more like commissioning Monet to do a painting for you. It takes a long, long time to produce these things. I have several custom pistol "masterpieces" and none of them was received in less than a year. You need a good deal of patience if you want to enter the custom pistol market.

I hate "censorship" but maybe our host should consider editing the recent comments about Dr. Nick, given the totality of circumstances surrounding penman53's (now successful) transaction.

I vote for the posts to stay as it portrays the frustration of a custom pistol customer and the circumstances that lead to it.

penman53 wrote:Had a lengthly informative phone call from Dr. Nick last night. He also gave me the tracking number for my new pistol. It is enroute to Edmond Oklahoma as we speak. Wooooooooooooooooopie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to get my hands on that beauty. Dr. Nick came through in what most people would say in record time. It has been less than a month from order to delivery. I was way to jumpy to complain and I truly apologize for being so impatient to all parties concernec. And thanks to you all for holding my hand through the process.

Mark Thomas, Edmond Ok

One month from order to delivery is truly amazing considering it takes most gunsmiths a month just to do a trigger job. I am sure the pistol itself is just as impressive. It is not uncommon to have wait time for six months to a year.

I just picked my gun up from the guy that recieved the gun for me. It is an absolute work of art, better that I expected and truly beautiful. Jerry the guy who Dr. Nick sent it to for me told me that he has sold and recieved hundreds of various guns and never, repeat never has he seen a more beautiful gun. He could hardly keep his hands off it.

Yes I am really lucky to have gotten the gun so fast. No complaints here. Dr. Nick called me yesterday to tell me that the gun was shipped, called me this morning to see if I had recieved it. Called me this evening to see if I had gotten it and every time he spent tons of time talking to me.

He is a very knowledegable wonderful man. I am lucky to know him

Dr. NIck has become a friend. I think he is truly obsessed with excellence in his gun making.

I can't say enough about him. I can't wait to shoot it tomorrow.

Mark Thomas, Edmond Oklahoma

I've found this interesting. I've ordered a few custom pistols over the years. The wait time was several months to over a year. I'm wondering about this one month project, when I've seen that others are still waiting, some claim over a year, to get their MCP pistol. Looks like the squeaky wheel got the grease. I like the custom makers who put their customers in order of first come, first served. I also like the ones who put as much effort into building a gun for a novice as they do top level shooters.

I have shot my new pistol twice and I must tell you that truly enjoy this pistol. I am so lucky to have a wife that supports me in this sport and buys me such a beautiful gun. I took it apart today and what a beautiful gun. The slide to frame fit is awesome, just awesome. The groups are getting smaller and smaller everytime I shoot. I will keep you all posted.

Mark Thomas, Edmond Oklahoma

Misny wrote:I've found this interesting. I've ordered a few custom pistols over the years. The wait time was several months to over a year. I'm wondering about this one month project, when I've seen that others are still waiting, some claim over a year, to get their MCP pistol. Looks like the squeaky wheel got the grease. I like the custom makers who put their customers in order of first come, first served. I also like the ones who put as much effort into building a gun for a novice as they do top level shooters.

My first pistol (wadcutter 1911) from Dr. Nick took about a month. This was back in 2008. The gun still holds a group better than 1 1/2" and there is still a nice short roll on the trigger even after 20,000 rounds and who know how many pull of the trigger for dry firing.

Now I do have a M9 that I am having some work done with Dr. Nick and it has been there for several months since we are waiting for a Brigadier slide. The gun might be with him for another six months. I was also told by Dr. Nick some of the guns that he is working on, is on a long queue due to tie ups at the engraver, bluing place he uses. Maybe reason why some takes longer than others.

Beretta stopped making the Brigadier slide more than 5 years ago. Did he find another source or are is he making/having them made?

CP1 wrote:Beretta stopped making the Brigadier slide more than 5 years ago. Did he find another source or are is he making/having them made?

Yes, Dr. Nick is building a few Brigadier slides. He still doesn't have them available yet at this time.

Misny wrote:I've found this interesting. I've ordered a few custom pistols over the years. The wait time was several months to over a year. I'm wondering about this one month project, when I've seen that others are still waiting, some claim over a year, to get their MCP pistol. Looks like the squeaky wheel got the grease. I like the custom makers who put their customers in order of first come, first served. I also like the ones who put as much effort into building a gun for a novice as they do top level shooters.

Actually,

Let me do some updating for the record. I've been working on the MCP website for Nick (yeah, we still have alot of work to do), and we've been exchanging stories. He's recently mentioned to me a few neat things, and then a few disturbing things...

Good Stuff:

At this point he's pretty much settled on selling new pistols.

The reason for this appears to be that it's hugely time consuming to work on someone else's pistol, but on the other hand he's got the manufactuing process down to a science. As such, he can build you a BE pistol with a set of limited options and get it out the door in less than a week. Sometimes, as little at 24 hours to your FFL.

The rail system works very well, but even he had to admit that if he just built the pistols from the ground up, that he could reduce the turn around time by about 80%.

So, MCP has been having forged steel blanks made for the frames and the slides, then using the 4 axis milling machine to produce identical slides / frames.

What's currently unique is that using forged steel blanks produces a firearms with a rockwell hardness of 35 to 40. His competitors are not doing this because cutting steel of that hardness destroys the cuttiers after around 50 pieces. A sand casted pistol, such as a Caspian, is much easier on the cutters and they last about 4 times as log. Each change out of cutters is costing MCP about $20,000.00...

So between the forged steel blanks, and the cutters... it cost a fair amount to produce one MCP pistol.

Interestingly, it's still more cost and time effective to do this, than it is to actually have Nick work on your pistol... Wow.

He has indicated that he'll still send pieces for for engraving, but it REALLY slows down the process and that the company that does the work has a horrible turn around time because he gives them so little business.

The Bad Stuff:

So, it appears that there are people that have been slamming MCP on the internet. The primarly for the following:

- Turn around time prior to Nick, et. al, working out their manufacturing process. (Which was long... and now appears to be in the past.)

- A few people who have previously, when MCP was doing the rail system for 1911s, send them firearms that were:

1) Not registered to the person sending the firearm
2) Reported as stolen
3) Reported as used in comission of a crime and sought by law enforcement(!)

It appears that about 20% of the firearms MCP recieves fall into one of the three categories above... and that means they have to surrender the pistols to the ATF!

So there are people out there with an ax to grind, even though they appear to have commited a crime.

It's hard to fathom that someone would send a stolen firearm to a gun smith across state lines, or commit a murder with a firearm arm and send it to a gun smith to be made into a BE pistol.... but it's happened.

Usually, the ATF asks that the firearm be destroyed, and MCP has to comply. (I sure as hell wouldn't want to loose my FFL or worse because jackass decided to send me a firearm that was going to get me in trouble...)

Anyway, it appears that a few of the lucky people that the ATF hasn't had time to go after have been bad mouthing MCP.

CP1 wrote:Beretta stopped making the Brigadier slide more than 5 years ago. Did he find another source or are is he making/having them made?

He made be having them made...

I understand that he needs a plunge EDM to take care one part of the making of that slide.

In theory, it should as simple as sending the slides out to have the part cut, but MCP is find that many of the shops that have plunge EDMs want several hundred (or more) dollars to make the one cut in the slide needed.

Additionally, he's had one company go out of business and another just do work that's not up to his standards.

...and trust me, he's got high standards.

The biggest issue right now appears to be that alot of machine shops with the needed equipment are going out of business due to the economy. The other shops really want to charge an arm and a leg, and I think Nick just wants to get out a reasonably priced product.

Over time I would suspect that he'll get this sorted out.

GBMaryland and the prior guest had made good summary of their Dr. Nick's recent situation. I spoke to Dr. Nick just yesterday after a few weeks of unsuccessfully trying to get in contact with him. I think he has had a lot on his plate lately and probably for the rest of the year since he mentioned he will be meeting Brian Zins soon to work out loads etc for a couple weeks.

I sent a MCP 9mm to him as mentioned around July or so for the Brigadier slide. It turns out the slides had been held up for the past year at the company he sent them to, to have them worked on. (Dr. Nick needed a six axis machine to to drill a few parts of the slide). It seems Dr. Nick is going to try and get the slides back soon and find someone else to work on them. During our long and very informative conversation, he mentioned my pistol did get a new trigger job with the new trigger shoe, and a bunch of tungsten parts and a new hammer he designed. I cannot wait to see just the work he has done now. Anyway, I hope there is the resolution to the Brigadier slides soon as I have a few leg matches to shoot soon.

Recently, I admit, I was concerned about not being able to get a hold of Dr. Nick or getting a return phone call, but the fact that Brian Zins has a close working relationship with Dr. Nick, really eases a lot of my concerns. Brian is a very upstanding guy and I know he will not have any association with people of questionable character. I think Dr. probably had a lot on his plate in addition to his full time medical practice, plus he had Bronchitis a month or so ago so I don't think that helped him at all. I think you just have to be patient because in the end, you will be pleased.

Here are some photos of my M9 before I sent to him, I hope to have in back soon so will show the after photos.

Well, thanks for all the informaiton and good luck on your pistol. Sent my order and check out qiote a while ago and still waiting for my M9. Kinda hard to hear about all these guys getting pistols in a month. If you really want to update the website, how back posting an order list so we can see where we stand?

Cecil Rhodes
Paitently Waiting

GBMarland wrote "- A few people who have previously, when MCP was doing the rail system for 1911s, send them firearms that were:

1) Not registered to the person sending the firearm
2) Reported as stolen
3) Reported as used in comission of a crime and sought by law enforcement(!)

It appears that about 20% of the firearms MCP recieves fall into one of the three categories above... and that means they have to surrender the pistols to the ATF!"


I'm sorry I was waiting for someone else to debunk this large glaring prevarication but no one did, so I am forced to do it myself.

I find it appalling that Dr Nick feels that it is necessary to trash his former customers in order to defend his less than spectacular business practices so lets take these claims one at a time.
1. Not registered to the person sending the firearm.
There is no national registration system in the US and most states and municipalities do not require registration at all so exactly who is Dr. Nick checking with to see if these guns are registered? I REALLY want to know.

2. Reported as stolen. There is also no nationwide data base of stolen firearms in the US so again, exactly who is "Dr Nick" checking with to see if a gun he receives to be worked on is stolen? The ATF keeps no such list and it is quite possible to legally transfer a handgun in this country through private parties without there being any paperwork on the gun. I have several I inherited from my father that were owned by him prior to the gun control act of 1968, none of these guns have ever had a dealer transfer done on them In addition, all those dealer transfers are retained by the dealer and not sent into the BATF so there is NO WAY to know if a gun is stolen unless you get very lucky.

3. Reported as used in a commission of a crime or sought by law enforcement. Again, no nation wide list and very few of guns that would fall into this category out there. Think about it. The only way to identify a gun as used in a crime is because the police have picked it up at a crime scene, AND RETAINED OR DESTROYED THE GUN. Even then it is hit of miss matching a gun to some kind of ballistic fingerprint. Change out the barrel and you have defeated it, never mind that there are very few guns/barrels in this country that have ever had a ballistic test performed on them. This claim does not pass the smell test

In short, you would have us believe that ONE FIFTH of all the high dollar firearms, shipped to "Dr Nick" fall into one of these three categories above, and that one fifth of all of Dr Nick's potential customers are criminals. If I was a customer or potential customer of Dr Nicks I would now be considering filing a lawsuit for libel in the State of Pennsylvania.

After reading this post I would NEVER send a gun to Mountain Competition Pistols. Chances are too good that because my gun is not "registered", (not required in Wyoming), they would just keep it and claim that they had handed it over to the BATF.

Isabel is right, that sounds like utter BS.

Brian is a very upstanding guy and I know he will not have any association with people of questionable character.

Brian is a very upstanding guy, but that doesn' t mean that he has any inside knowledge on MCP's operations or financial standing.

Brian is a very upstanding guy, but that doesn' t mean that he has any inside knowledge on MCP's operations or financial standing.

Dr. Nick and Brian have a very close working relationship. Call Brian and ask yourself. The amount of time these two spend developing new things, Brian would have to be blind not to notice anything that is not kosher.

Has he actually told you this, or this is what you're assuming?

Brian Zins has told you that he's evaluated Dr. Nick's business and would like to personally endorse it?

solomon grundy wrote:Has he actually told you this, or this is what you're assuming?

Brian Zins has told you that he's evaluated Dr. Nick's business and would like to personally endorse it?

Yes, Gunny Zins was first to tell me about Dr. Nick in first place and endorses his pistols http://www.brianzins.com/

MCP is a sponsor of Brian Zins, like Aimpoint and Lapua, he's not Dr. Nicks business partner. MCP has licensed his name for that one pistol they offer. Don't bring him into this, he doesn't have any other involvement with MCP and you shouldn't be claiming otherwise.