The question of what equipment someone should buy, how much they can expect to spend, and which equipment is truly necessary to get started in BE seems to come up frequently.
In response, you'll see estimates ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars and wildly divergent recommendations on guns and equipment.
But I've seldom been impressed w/ the answers that new shooters receive to these sorts of questions - they don't comport w/ my own experience. For whatever reason, the advice that they get seems to represent one of two extremes - i.e. 'all you need is a Mark III and a paper bag to hold your remington ammo' vs 'you need 3 Clark-built 1911's, reloading equipment ...'.
So I'm going to propose a model shooter and am interested in reading other peoples estimates of what this individual should acquire to get started and how much they can expect to spend over time.
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Let's say that "Charlie" already has a suitable rimfire pistol. He's been shooting an indoor 50' match for a while and is interested in stepping-up to BE. He doesn't have any equipment except for his pistol, but he's ready to buy a gun(s) for centerfire and 45.
What would you tell Charlie to buy to get started shooting BE and how much would you advise him that he can expect spend over the first season and then each season afterwards?
Start-up Bullseye Budget
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
Well, you see, that's the problem. We don't know anything else about Charlie. Does he has aspirations of national championship participation or just shooting on Saturday once a month? Is he committed to bullseye, or just dabbling? Does he reload already or will he need a reloader as well? What's his current scores and how long did it take to get there? Can he really see the front sight or does he need a dot? How much disposable income does he have? Is he married, with kids, young or college? How often can he get to the range?
But, based on the general description given. Charlie probably doesn't need that centerfire or .45 for a while. Charlie, for now, only needs a box, spotting scope, stapler, diary and enough .22 ammo for about 18 months, some training and some serious thoughts about how to shoot.
Add a dot sight if he can't really see the front sight. At about the mid to high expert scores he might be ready to buy a .45, but in the meantime save the money for the .45 and reloader. By the way, if possible, he needs a good air pistol as the very next gun, become a trained CRO and help run some matches.
Shameless promotion time, Getting Started thread might have some answers, but probably just more questions.
Cecil
But, based on the general description given. Charlie probably doesn't need that centerfire or .45 for a while. Charlie, for now, only needs a box, spotting scope, stapler, diary and enough .22 ammo for about 18 months, some training and some serious thoughts about how to shoot.
Add a dot sight if he can't really see the front sight. At about the mid to high expert scores he might be ready to buy a .45, but in the meantime save the money for the .45 and reloader. By the way, if possible, he needs a good air pistol as the very next gun, become a trained CRO and help run some matches.
Shameless promotion time, Getting Started thread might have some answers, but probably just more questions.
Cecil
Re: Start-up Bullseye Budget
I think this is really a pretty easy question. While everyone will argue till the cows come home whether or not you need a beat up Ruger or a Hammerli 208, lightly used by a little old lady on Sunday's, virtually everyone shoot's an accurized 1911 for 45.Anonymous wrote: ----------------------
Let's say that "Charlie" already has a suitable rimfire pistol. He's been shooting an indoor 50' match for a while and is interested in stepping-up to BE. He doesn't have any equipment except for his pistol, but he's ready to buy a gun(s) for centerfire and 45.
What would you tell Charlie to buy to get started shooting BE and how much would you advise him that he can expect spend over the first season and then each season afterwards?
I'd tell him to order a Rock River wad gun, and a 1" Ultradot and shoot it for CF & 45. If there is a good used gun available locally that might be an alternative to save some cash, but I'd only recommend it if the gun was being sold by a local competitor so that performance and function could be verified before sale. No matter how you slice it, if you buy a new gun you're going to spend $1500 to $2000 on a 45, and it'll be a 1911. So get a quality factory gun that won't need any additional work (and will have a warranty).
For ammo I'd suggest that he enlist the aid of a local shooter to help him find a load for his gun. Most guys around here are more than willing to help out a new shooter in this respect, and hopefully will keep him in ammo long enough to determine what he wants for a reloader (if he does indeed want to reload).
So, I'd say start with $2000 to get a gun, and then consider setting aside another $500 if he wants to reload (and get whatever loader the local guys are using, so he won't have to figure out for himself how to set it up).
Unfortunately, 45's are expensive, but a cheap gun that's not accurate (or reliable) will end up costing you more in the long run.
Just my 2 cents,
Steve.
P.S. I wouldn't wait to become a Master class gallery shooter before getting a 45. Outdoor 2700's are a lot of fun. Just tell the match director you're new and he'll be sure not to put you next to a high master in training :)
The most significant initial costs are probably going to be your 1911 and reloading equipment. If you're frugal, you may be able to accommodate both of these for less than $1500 - e.g. by buying used equipment. Reloading equipment isn't absolutely necessary, you can obviously buy factory ammo, but it's a good investment as it will save you many times its cost in a relatively short period of time.
I've never actually tabulated costs for accessories such as a range bag, timer, brass catcher, field tools, pistol box etc.. - off the top of my head, I'd bet that you can assemble these elements for less than $700.
So that would bring a full kit to about $2200 w/ reloading equipment. If you were to forego reloading, buy a used pistol and only the bare essentials, you could probably get going for less than $1500. But you also need to consider that you can spend $2000 on factory ammo, factoring training and matches, pretty easily.
Do these estimates seem about right?
I've never actually tabulated costs for accessories such as a range bag, timer, brass catcher, field tools, pistol box etc.. - off the top of my head, I'd bet that you can assemble these elements for less than $700.
So that would bring a full kit to about $2200 w/ reloading equipment. If you were to forego reloading, buy a used pistol and only the bare essentials, you could probably get going for less than $1500. But you also need to consider that you can spend $2000 on factory ammo, factoring training and matches, pretty easily.
Do these estimates seem about right?
Charlie needs to talk to shooters. And decide if he can attend 50 or 5 matches a year. How much practice time is available? Coaching? Do his priorities include Service Pistol Distinguished? Or maybe even main concentration on Service Pistol. His age? His eyesight? Is there a good gun tuner available? And his budget. All things to be considered.
My experience
I am just starting and this is how it is going for me.
I shoot in the local league twice a week- we shoot two 900's each session.
I also shoot a 3 hour training session each week coached by the top shooters at the club.
Cost-
Gun- $700.00
I picked up a beautiful High Standard Citation .22- NIB 40 years old, shoots like a dream. As a real beginner with pistol I intend to shoot only this gun for about 2 years.
Accessories-
Ears- Leightning L-3's $20.00
Eyes- Safety type $15.00
Cleaning /etc $50.00
I kit in a old tool bag and am good to go. This does not include some of the nice options.... like a air pistol for at home range work.
Ammo-
My gun shoots everything I have tried but am currently shooting the Federal #714 'target' ammo at $15.00 a brick. I am currently shooting about one brick of 500 per week- so $15 a week.
Fees-
The league shoots cost $3.00 per gun and I am shooting four per week- $12.00. Club membership is $200.00 per year- $4.00/week
So...
It is costing me:
Setup- about $800.00 for one gun
Fees/ammo- $31.00/week
I see in the post that you suggest the whole three gun set. I have no intention of running the center fire or .45 for some time as mentioned above. I own a nice 70's series NM .45 which I intend to shoot when the time comes. I hear that folks are reloading at .7/rnd so half of my weekly shooting will double in cost for ammo if I reload and this does not include the $1000.00 to set up a reloader.
Also- shoot iron sights so no dots to buy...
Hope this helps
I shoot in the local league twice a week- we shoot two 900's each session.
I also shoot a 3 hour training session each week coached by the top shooters at the club.
Cost-
Gun- $700.00
I picked up a beautiful High Standard Citation .22- NIB 40 years old, shoots like a dream. As a real beginner with pistol I intend to shoot only this gun for about 2 years.
Accessories-
Ears- Leightning L-3's $20.00
Eyes- Safety type $15.00
Cleaning /etc $50.00
I kit in a old tool bag and am good to go. This does not include some of the nice options.... like a air pistol for at home range work.
Ammo-
My gun shoots everything I have tried but am currently shooting the Federal #714 'target' ammo at $15.00 a brick. I am currently shooting about one brick of 500 per week- so $15 a week.
Fees-
The league shoots cost $3.00 per gun and I am shooting four per week- $12.00. Club membership is $200.00 per year- $4.00/week
So...
It is costing me:
Setup- about $800.00 for one gun
Fees/ammo- $31.00/week
I see in the post that you suggest the whole three gun set. I have no intention of running the center fire or .45 for some time as mentioned above. I own a nice 70's series NM .45 which I intend to shoot when the time comes. I hear that folks are reloading at .7/rnd so half of my weekly shooting will double in cost for ammo if I reload and this does not include the $1000.00 to set up a reloader.
Also- shoot iron sights so no dots to buy...
Hope this helps
-
RobW
Intent
I'd say the first two questions to ask Charlie are:
How much spare time do you have for your hobbies?
How much of this time (or how much *more* of this time) do you intend to spend shooting?
If you can realistically answer *LOTS* to both questions, I'd say you would be well advised to invest in a new .45 to go along with your .22, and a decent progressive press. You will be happy you did in the long run.
If not, the ".22" guys have got the answer to your question - run what you brung until you can answer the questions affirmatively. You can shoot every .22 match that you get a chance to attend (conventional and international style) without needing to do anything more than buy decent ammo online (eye and ear protection are assumed); your proverbial "brown paper bag" will in fact suffice to get you to the match.
Many, many, many shooters (guilty as charged, myself) intend to do a lot more competition shooting than they actually ever get a chance to ...
-- Rob W.
How much spare time do you have for your hobbies?
How much of this time (or how much *more* of this time) do you intend to spend shooting?
If you can realistically answer *LOTS* to both questions, I'd say you would be well advised to invest in a new .45 to go along with your .22, and a decent progressive press. You will be happy you did in the long run.
If not, the ".22" guys have got the answer to your question - run what you brung until you can answer the questions affirmatively. You can shoot every .22 match that you get a chance to attend (conventional and international style) without needing to do anything more than buy decent ammo online (eye and ear protection are assumed); your proverbial "brown paper bag" will in fact suffice to get you to the match.
Many, many, many shooters (guilty as charged, myself) intend to do a lot more competition shooting than they actually ever get a chance to ...
-- Rob W.
I'm in Charlie's position, and I'd like to amplify some of the suggestions from above.
My current decision is that .22 is going to need to be the sole event I'll shoot for at least another season, probably longer. Here's my reasoning:
-I'm not shooting anywhere near high enough scores to make a 2700 match anything other than an interesting experience. Certainly no more useful than shooting only the .22 portion.
-In my situation, I'm not going to have "lots" of time to spend training, reloading, or shooting for about 4 more years. Any time spent learning another gun or reloading is time not spent improving my .22 skills.
-Financially, I can get much more bang for my buck (ha ha) buying range time, .22 ammo, and pellets for my air pistol. This is even factoring in the fact that I'm about to get a full reloading set up (the one my dad doesn't use anymore) with tons of brass, lead, and powder pretty much for free.
My tipping point into centerfire and .45 will be when I'm shooting well enough with the .22 that I start thinking. "If I can do this with the .45 I'd really kick some butt." When that time comes, I'll probably take the plunge and get a new bullseye 1911.
The only thing I'd say I've done beyond Charlie is to get an air pistol so I can train at home several nights per week at very low cost. I also have a non-bullseye 1911 to satisfy the "let's go out an have some fun shooting the .45" urge. Shooting that gun shows me just how much serious training would be necessary to master it, which would be time taken away from mastering the .22. I'm in no hurry to shoot 2 guns poorly.
-J.
My current decision is that .22 is going to need to be the sole event I'll shoot for at least another season, probably longer. Here's my reasoning:
-I'm not shooting anywhere near high enough scores to make a 2700 match anything other than an interesting experience. Certainly no more useful than shooting only the .22 portion.
-In my situation, I'm not going to have "lots" of time to spend training, reloading, or shooting for about 4 more years. Any time spent learning another gun or reloading is time not spent improving my .22 skills.
-Financially, I can get much more bang for my buck (ha ha) buying range time, .22 ammo, and pellets for my air pistol. This is even factoring in the fact that I'm about to get a full reloading set up (the one my dad doesn't use anymore) with tons of brass, lead, and powder pretty much for free.
My tipping point into centerfire and .45 will be when I'm shooting well enough with the .22 that I start thinking. "If I can do this with the .45 I'd really kick some butt." When that time comes, I'll probably take the plunge and get a new bullseye 1911.
The only thing I'd say I've done beyond Charlie is to get an air pistol so I can train at home several nights per week at very low cost. I also have a non-bullseye 1911 to satisfy the "let's go out an have some fun shooting the .45" urge. Shooting that gun shows me just how much serious training would be necessary to master it, which would be time taken away from mastering the .22. I'm in no hurry to shoot 2 guns poorly.
-J.
I hesitate to respond since I have yet to fire a shot in Bullseye competition and am also trying to decide what approach to take in regard to training and purchasing equipment.
I would just like to mention that I've seen several posts on the Bullseye-L forum suggesting that many regard it as a mistake to wait until you are "good enough" - however you might define that - before entering 2700's. The prevailing theory seems to be "if you can keep all your shots on the paper then you're "good enough" - and will learn much by actually competing.
Ned
I would just like to mention that I've seen several posts on the Bullseye-L forum suggesting that many regard it as a mistake to wait until you are "good enough" - however you might define that - before entering 2700's. The prevailing theory seems to be "if you can keep all your shots on the paper then you're "good enough" - and will learn much by actually competing.
Ned
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solomon grundy
You'll often read that it's appropriate to take-on the 45 once you're consistently shooting 80% or better w/ the 22.
But I've also spoken to excellent shooters who advise taking on the 45 as soon as you're competent to handle the pistol safely.
Personally I lean towards the perspective that you should be competent w/ the 22 first. It seems to be easier for new competitors to evaluate their mistakes and correct these with a 22 than with a 45.
But I've also spoken to excellent shooters who advise taking on the 45 as soon as you're competent to handle the pistol safely.
Personally I lean towards the perspective that you should be competent w/ the 22 first. It seems to be easier for new competitors to evaluate their mistakes and correct these with a 22 than with a 45.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over the .45 if I had unlimited time and ammo. I'd make room in the budget for a bullseye 1911 in that case.
For me it's a resource utilization question. My limited time, energy, and money will give me the most if I focus on the gun I already have that shoots affordable ammo.
Also if I can prove to myself that I'll make the time to master one gun, then I'll feel much better about laying out money for another. I really don't need another $1000-$2000 piece of equipment in the house that I don't get to use as much as I'd like.
-J.
For me it's a resource utilization question. My limited time, energy, and money will give me the most if I focus on the gun I already have that shoots affordable ammo.
Also if I can prove to myself that I'll make the time to master one gun, then I'll feel much better about laying out money for another. I really don't need another $1000-$2000 piece of equipment in the house that I don't get to use as much as I'd like.
-J.
What would be wrong with this approach?
Okay, a mark2 or buckmark might do to start with but most agree it will have to replaced at some point. Short of getting lucky on a high standard it seems like one would have to spend almost a grand (minimum) for a .22 LR pistol for the long haul.
Now for about the same money I could get a Mil-spec .45 and a marvel conversion. Sure the trigger would need some work but shouldn't cost too much to be acceptable. Plus when I was ready I'd already have a .45 to send to the gunsmith (and a carry gun now). Is this a reasonable plan for someone of a very tight budget?
I understand I'd have to live with a 3.5# trigger but I am going to have to shoot that for 2/3rds of the match anyhow so I might as well get used to it.
Russ
Now for about the same money I could get a Mil-spec .45 and a marvel conversion. Sure the trigger would need some work but shouldn't cost too much to be acceptable. Plus when I was ready I'd already have a .45 to send to the gunsmith (and a carry gun now). Is this a reasonable plan for someone of a very tight budget?
I understand I'd have to live with a 3.5# trigger but I am going to have to shoot that for 2/3rds of the match anyhow so I might as well get used to it.
Russ
My problem has always been getting a pistol with the right grip, weight, and balance. In that respect, both the Ruger and the Marvel are hampered by a large grip frame (and in the 1911 case the grip safety) that limit the options for grip sizes and angles. I've always thought if I could just get the right grip, that the Ruger would be as good as anything.
If you are on a budget, the up front costs for the Marvel will be the conversion ($400), the gun ($550?), at least some trigger parts ($200), to give you a $1150 .22 with a decent trigger and stock panel grips. If you get the 45 accurized it's not such a bad deal, but just for the 22 not so much.
I wouldn't say don't get a Marvel, just don't expect to really save any money.
Steve.
If you are on a budget, the up front costs for the Marvel will be the conversion ($400), the gun ($550?), at least some trigger parts ($200), to give you a $1150 .22 with a decent trigger and stock panel grips. If you get the 45 accurized it's not such a bad deal, but just for the 22 not so much.
I wouldn't say don't get a Marvel, just don't expect to really save any money.
Steve.