I'm from Central Ohio USA. Headed to Coventry for a few weeks. I was thinking about bringing my air pistol to practice while there. Now understand that may be a BAD idea. Posted to the Bullseye-L list looking for shooters in the UK. They recommended posting here.
So, if there is a pistol shooter that calls Coventry home that would take pitty on a yank. I would love a chance to run a few pellets down range.
I'll be staying at the Coventry Holiday Inn M6 Juct 2
If you have need for something special from the US, I might be able to help as well.
Thanks in advance.
Dan, (starving sharpshooter)
Visiting Coventry UK, Looking for place to practice
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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motorcycle_dan
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:13 pm
- Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
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motorcycle_dan
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:13 pm
- Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
Most customs officials don't understand air pistols
Bad Idea because of the people who would look at the pistol. I have an IZH46M. Does not have compressed air cylinder. I did ask our local airport and that was their answer. I'd have to proove the cylinder does not have compressed gas in it. I said it doesn not have a replaceable cylinder. They said I'd have to disassemble it and proove there is no compressed gas.
Like teaching a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Most people recommend I find a club in the UK and then borrow or rent a pistol there. Much less hassle and I don't want to spend time in a US or UK customs office teaching people why I am not a terrorist.
So the question still stands, hoping to find someone to take pitty on me and loan a pistol and invite me to shoot at their club.
Like teaching a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Most people recommend I find a club in the UK and then borrow or rent a pistol there. Much less hassle and I don't want to spend time in a US or UK customs office teaching people why I am not a terrorist.
So the question still stands, hoping to find someone to take pitty on me and loan a pistol and invite me to shoot at their club.
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David Levene
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- Location: Ruislip, UK
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JulianY
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:26 am
- Location: A british shooting refugee in Amsterdam
- Contact:
Re: Most customs officials don't understand air pistols
The corect answer is "It does not have a cylinder" But I have heard of such problems in the US before.motorcycle_dan wrote:Bad Idea because of the people who would look at the pistol. I have an IZH46M. Does not have compressed air cylinder. I did ask our local airport and that was their answer. I'd have to proove the cylinder does not have compressed gas in it. I said it doesn not have a replaceable cylinder. They said I'd have to disassemble it and proove there is no compressed gas.
Like teaching a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Most people recommend I find a club in the UK and then borrow or rent a pistol there. Much less hassle and I don't want to spend time in a US or UK customs office teaching people why I am not a terrorist.
So the question still stands, hoping to find someone to take pitty on me and loan a pistol and invite me to shoot at their club.
As far as the UK goes, You have to declare it to UK customs. The have to right to test it and if it goes over the limit it will not be returned to you and and may be distroyed. Is is doubtful the will reconise the brand abd may well decide to test it for that reason alone.
The bigger problem is who is the airline handling agent in the UK. Some handling agents will only handle firearm in congunction with the correct liecence. Since an air pistol has no licence in their view you don't have the paper work and they wont handle it NO EXCEPTIONS ! Liverpool is one such airport.
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Guest
Julian,
You trying to put the guy off ;-)
Dan,
I have never had hassle with UK airports - Luton is fine as are the London airports. All you should need to check is that the airline will carry said gun and that's pretty much it. Your gun would not be tested, unless you are extremely unlucky - they never opened the box with mine. AFAIK your biggest problem is the US airport authorities but if your gun has no detachable cylinder then you should be OK.
Unfortunately I'm too far south to help you but if you decided to go into London, you'd come right past me.
Rob.
You trying to put the guy off ;-)
Dan,
I have never had hassle with UK airports - Luton is fine as are the London airports. All you should need to check is that the airline will carry said gun and that's pretty much it. Your gun would not be tested, unless you are extremely unlucky - they never opened the box with mine. AFAIK your biggest problem is the US airport authorities but if your gun has no detachable cylinder then you should be OK.
Unfortunately I'm too far south to help you but if you decided to go into London, you'd come right past me.
Rob.
Air Pistol Shooting, Midlands, UK
Hi Dan,
I have sent you a PM with some details.
Rutty
I have sent you a PM with some details.
Rutty
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Re: Visiting Coventry UK, Looking for place to practice
A suggestion has been made that you might look at www.8thwarwicks.co.ukmotorcycle_dan wrote:So, if there is a pistol shooter that calls Coventry home that would take pitty on a yank. I would love a chance to run a few pellets down range.
It seems it is an easy drive from Coventry.
Not quite a personal invitation I'm afraid but I'm just passing it on from the Stirton Forum.
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motorcycle_dan
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:13 pm
- Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
Thanks, I sent out a plea for practice e-mail to both places
If nothing else I need the practice. To compete in a match would be wonderful even if just a practice match.
Thanks
Dan
Thanks
Dan
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JulianY
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:26 am
- Location: A british shooting refugee in Amsterdam
- Contact:
Dan,
First let me apologize for my apparent rudeness ( Thanks to rob and Guest for pointing it out.) It was not intended and born out of the frustration I have experienced. Permit me to provide you with some more useful information.
The procedure as far as the UK is concerned is simple or at least it should be.
First off for an air pistol to be legal in the uk, it must have a power rating of less that 6 foot pounds or 8.15 joules (are rifles are permitted twelve foot pounds (16.3 joules). There are several other criteria but the don’t pertain to an izzy).
Procedures:
INBOUND (Coming in to the UK): Air weapons _must_ be declared to customs, who have the right to test them. The may be impounded until such time as the test has been completed (some airports do not have facilities to do this on site). Guns that pass will be returned to you and those and will not be permitted to enter the country if they fail and may be destroyed.
OUTBOUND( leaving the UK).
Ammunition and weapons must be carried in separate lockable containers / bags and must be checked in not hand carry. Airlines also require that you check in early, often a minimum of 90 minuets before the flight.
The Airline should be notified before the date of travel that you intend to with a gun, so they have the “trained” staff available to inspect the weapon and ensure it is safe. (often a police firearms offer is in attendance) They may charge for this service.
That should be it and as rob says for the most part it is. Before I explain where things go wrong, I should point out that there are a number of reasons the Rob has now experienced difficulties.
First off is his attitude, I have met Rob and I know this to be true. He is at all times polite a courteous. Robs knows they have a Job to do and the best way is to make it as easy and pleasant for them. Secondly he travels with a reason; a match, a training session and enough evidence to remove any doubt as to his intended purpose e.g. letters of invitation, team uniform etc. etc. In other words he looks the part and acts the part. Lastly he travels through the larger airports that have more experience in dealing with these matters.
Ok so where does it go wrong.
The root of the problem is that many people, if not most, are not familiar with guns, their licensing or lack of it. They are also trained to be paranoid particularly post 9/11. In the absence of or knowledge or training they are left to relight on manuals which are often written badly and many cases incomplete. Yes the Airline has a full version but a shortened version is issued to staff!
It is the airlines decision if they want to carry guns, dogs what ever and it is their responsibility to ensure this is done safely. Some of the smaller airlines just say no (eg jet2). Interestingly I just checked and the Easyjet policy has changed it now states “be carried in hold luggage with appropriate paperwork” last summer it use to say “with firearms license” which ruled out air guns. - my problem.
The second problem is the airport staff. At smaller air ports, airlines use handling agents rather that airline staff. These people are may have different rules and may not agree to handle guns. The air line should know this, but airline staffs often don’t know who to ask to be sure.
This was the case a Liverpool and remains unclear, the airline euromanx still says “The service of Carrying Firearms and Sporting weapons has been withdrawn from our Isle of Man - Liverpool - Liverpool - Isle of Man service until further Notice.” I checked with them and the reason for this that a “sub contractor” don’t know which one, does not have a “dangerous goods carriage license”. But according to the airline air guns are no problem.
Lastly there is the aircraft it’s self. Certain European airlines use aircraft such as the ATP. These aircraft do not have a baggage hold, bags are stored in a part of the cabin behind the seating area. You have to walk past them to get to the rear toilets. On these airline no checked in guns are permitted even if the airlines in general allows it.
Finally, for completeness sake, a word about traveling within in mainland Europe; Many countries (Netherlands for example) _require_ ;
An official letter invitation,
Membership of the national organization; (This is your license to shoot in competition)
Your firearms license if relevant
A European wide firearms license, issues by the same country as your regular firearms license) .
I appreciate we are only talking air, but they can very strict on the first two for air. You should be aware that different countries within Europe have different rules regarding air weapons, the power permitted and particularly those that might be regarded as replicas of regular firearms. Again, not a problem for an Izzy.
So to sum it up, if the airline says it’s ok and you are traveling to a major airport ie London, Manchester etc. There should be no problem. If there are problems my advice would be to ask for a “Trained Firearms officer” to be in attendance. They should know the law and should know where to get clarity if they don’t. If you can get an invitation before hand all the better.
First let me apologize for my apparent rudeness ( Thanks to rob and Guest for pointing it out.) It was not intended and born out of the frustration I have experienced. Permit me to provide you with some more useful information.
The procedure as far as the UK is concerned is simple or at least it should be.
First off for an air pistol to be legal in the uk, it must have a power rating of less that 6 foot pounds or 8.15 joules (are rifles are permitted twelve foot pounds (16.3 joules). There are several other criteria but the don’t pertain to an izzy).
Procedures:
INBOUND (Coming in to the UK): Air weapons _must_ be declared to customs, who have the right to test them. The may be impounded until such time as the test has been completed (some airports do not have facilities to do this on site). Guns that pass will be returned to you and those and will not be permitted to enter the country if they fail and may be destroyed.
OUTBOUND( leaving the UK).
Ammunition and weapons must be carried in separate lockable containers / bags and must be checked in not hand carry. Airlines also require that you check in early, often a minimum of 90 minuets before the flight.
The Airline should be notified before the date of travel that you intend to with a gun, so they have the “trained” staff available to inspect the weapon and ensure it is safe. (often a police firearms offer is in attendance) They may charge for this service.
That should be it and as rob says for the most part it is. Before I explain where things go wrong, I should point out that there are a number of reasons the Rob has now experienced difficulties.
First off is his attitude, I have met Rob and I know this to be true. He is at all times polite a courteous. Robs knows they have a Job to do and the best way is to make it as easy and pleasant for them. Secondly he travels with a reason; a match, a training session and enough evidence to remove any doubt as to his intended purpose e.g. letters of invitation, team uniform etc. etc. In other words he looks the part and acts the part. Lastly he travels through the larger airports that have more experience in dealing with these matters.
Ok so where does it go wrong.
The root of the problem is that many people, if not most, are not familiar with guns, their licensing or lack of it. They are also trained to be paranoid particularly post 9/11. In the absence of or knowledge or training they are left to relight on manuals which are often written badly and many cases incomplete. Yes the Airline has a full version but a shortened version is issued to staff!
It is the airlines decision if they want to carry guns, dogs what ever and it is their responsibility to ensure this is done safely. Some of the smaller airlines just say no (eg jet2). Interestingly I just checked and the Easyjet policy has changed it now states “be carried in hold luggage with appropriate paperwork” last summer it use to say “with firearms license” which ruled out air guns. - my problem.
The second problem is the airport staff. At smaller air ports, airlines use handling agents rather that airline staff. These people are may have different rules and may not agree to handle guns. The air line should know this, but airline staffs often don’t know who to ask to be sure.
This was the case a Liverpool and remains unclear, the airline euromanx still says “The service of Carrying Firearms and Sporting weapons has been withdrawn from our Isle of Man - Liverpool - Liverpool - Isle of Man service until further Notice.” I checked with them and the reason for this that a “sub contractor” don’t know which one, does not have a “dangerous goods carriage license”. But according to the airline air guns are no problem.
Lastly there is the aircraft it’s self. Certain European airlines use aircraft such as the ATP. These aircraft do not have a baggage hold, bags are stored in a part of the cabin behind the seating area. You have to walk past them to get to the rear toilets. On these airline no checked in guns are permitted even if the airlines in general allows it.
Finally, for completeness sake, a word about traveling within in mainland Europe; Many countries (Netherlands for example) _require_ ;
An official letter invitation,
Membership of the national organization; (This is your license to shoot in competition)
Your firearms license if relevant
A European wide firearms license, issues by the same country as your regular firearms license) .
I appreciate we are only talking air, but they can very strict on the first two for air. You should be aware that different countries within Europe have different rules regarding air weapons, the power permitted and particularly those that might be regarded as replicas of regular firearms. Again, not a problem for an Izzy.
So to sum it up, if the airline says it’s ok and you are traveling to a major airport ie London, Manchester etc. There should be no problem. If there are problems my advice would be to ask for a “Trained Firearms officer” to be in attendance. They should know the law and should know where to get clarity if they don’t. If you can get an invitation before hand all the better.
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motorcycle_dan
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:13 pm
- Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
Thanks for the travel info
But I suspected as much and that is why I consider it a bad idea. I have a clear plastic air soft pistol. Resembles a M9 Beretta. It is double action and allows me to work on trigger control on IPSC style targets. I thought of traveling with this as well but have sworn it off for the same reason. I don't want to spend time in a detention cell while someone else figures out I am doing nothing illegal. I love my job but I get out of practice when I travel and I'm at a point in my marksmanship that regular practice really helps.
Thanks for the well thought out reply and no offense taken at the original post. I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "their customs officials" were numb skulls. If that is true of anywhere, it is more so true for the US officials. Although Canada might run a close second.
I'm here in the UK now and wondering if I can hunt down a match this weekend. Guy I work with drove me to a country club nearby that has a gun club as well as golf, football, etc. GEC I think he said the name was.
Anyone listening a member of this club and can give me more information?
Thanks,
Dan
Thanks for the well thought out reply and no offense taken at the original post. I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "their customs officials" were numb skulls. If that is true of anywhere, it is more so true for the US officials. Although Canada might run a close second.
I'm here in the UK now and wondering if I can hunt down a match this weekend. Guy I work with drove me to a country club nearby that has a gun club as well as golf, football, etc. GEC I think he said the name was.
Anyone listening a member of this club and can give me more information?
Thanks,
Dan