Ok, I'll bite, even thought that long post sounds like some info-mercial that promises to deliver a clean-anything-in-less-than-30-seconds-with-no-harmful-side-effects-and-fuels-next-generation-vehicles-so-get-it-now-before-it's-gone-all-for-$19.99-satisfaction-guaranteed-or-you-money-back product (please forgive the cynicism). That said, I'm a sucker for those kinds of products and it sounds interesting so I'd be willing to give it a shot. Where can I get more info?
- Nick
After the Olympics... Now What?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Richard Newman
Where now
This is the third or fourth thread in the last several weeks to address the issues around how to build an International Shooting competitor base. Many good points have been made. But, as much as we talk about it, there are certain missing pieces which are necessary to create a 'winning' program.
First, USAS must be involved as the NGB and as the national focus of the program.
Second, a major educational outreach is needed. Too many shooters don't even know about ISSF shooting. Again, USAS should be the focus.
Third, the program must be on a national scale.
Fourth, competitors young and old need to see a possible progression and path forward for their long term goals and dreams.
Fifth, those who compete need recognition by the USAS, even at the lowest levels. Positive reinforcement is what works.
Finally, I am sure that USAS is aware of these discussions, and I am disappointed that they haven't seen fit to respond. I am obviously aware of the management changes, funding problems, etc. And I see some very limited support being offered on the USAS website for purchase of air pistols. But this isn't a substitute for a planned program. USAS where are you? It can't be done in a week, or a month, but we need to get started, and without USAS it can't happen.
Richard Newman
First, USAS must be involved as the NGB and as the national focus of the program.
Second, a major educational outreach is needed. Too many shooters don't even know about ISSF shooting. Again, USAS should be the focus.
Third, the program must be on a national scale.
Fourth, competitors young and old need to see a possible progression and path forward for their long term goals and dreams.
Fifth, those who compete need recognition by the USAS, even at the lowest levels. Positive reinforcement is what works.
Finally, I am sure that USAS is aware of these discussions, and I am disappointed that they haven't seen fit to respond. I am obviously aware of the management changes, funding problems, etc. And I see some very limited support being offered on the USAS website for purchase of air pistols. But this isn't a substitute for a planned program. USAS where are you? It can't be done in a week, or a month, but we need to get started, and without USAS it can't happen.
Richard Newman
programs
I think that training coaches is the key to many of these issues. USAS is involved (along with the NRA and CMP) in the coach certification program. Marcus and Howard have made tremendous upgrades to the course with good input from myself and those other organizations. Every coach should be eager for some training and every club, league, school, organization should require some certification (a few do already).
This really hits the first three points Richard made.
I would be glad to mention good (well thought out, affordable, effective, succinctly stated, etc.) solutions to the youth outreach questions at the USAS Board meeting this weekend.
Paths through the sport vary widely. We took a stab at some of them on the CMP's CD-ROM "Rifle Safety and Marksmanship Training". They are cheap. You should ALL have some in your libraries. It is not a definitive work, but it should help.
One of the threads did clarify that this needs to be a grassroots effort - that is a "10.9".
Finally my "ad".
I will be glad to travel to your area and put on a Coach& Shooter "Pairs" clinic. It is the perfect complement to the coach certification course (I can teach that too). You need a range and 8 or more pairs. I do most of the rest. It works out around $6/hr/person for a weekend of intensive training with an Olympic medalist with educational experience. Should be an easy call!!!
bobfoth@juno.com
This really hits the first three points Richard made.
I would be glad to mention good (well thought out, affordable, effective, succinctly stated, etc.) solutions to the youth outreach questions at the USAS Board meeting this weekend.
Paths through the sport vary widely. We took a stab at some of them on the CMP's CD-ROM "Rifle Safety and Marksmanship Training". They are cheap. You should ALL have some in your libraries. It is not a definitive work, but it should help.
One of the threads did clarify that this needs to be a grassroots effort - that is a "10.9".
Finally my "ad".
I will be glad to travel to your area and put on a Coach& Shooter "Pairs" clinic. It is the perfect complement to the coach certification course (I can teach that too). You need a range and 8 or more pairs. I do most of the rest. It works out around $6/hr/person for a weekend of intensive training with an Olympic medalist with educational experience. Should be an easy call!!!
bobfoth@juno.com
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A.R. JAYNES
I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TIME AND THANK BOB FOTH, AMBER DARLAND ,DAVID KIMES AND BILL BOYLE FOR THERE TIME AND EFFORT TO HELP THE KIDS AT SUTTER UNION HIGH SCHOOL. BOB AND COMPANY PUT ON A GREAT SCHOOL . I ADVISE ANYBODY WANTING TO ADVANCE IN THIS GAME OF HIGHER LEVEL SHOOTING BOB PUTS ON A GREAT SCHOOL
THE KIDS LOVE IT AND WE SAW A BIG JUMP IN THE SECOND YEAR SHOOTER AND SAW IMPROVEMENT FROM OUR HIGHER LEVEL SHOOTERS
AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT
THE KIDS LOVE IT AND WE SAW A BIG JUMP IN THE SECOND YEAR SHOOTER AND SAW IMPROVEMENT FROM OUR HIGHER LEVEL SHOOTERS
AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT
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Albert
Here, in The Netherlands, we experience the same problems. Over the years, shooting clubs are having less members - mostly juniors. Although the national shooting organisation is doing it's best, there are not enough financial resources available. Trainer courses are slowly formed and improved (the courses are all based on teaching adults to shoot!), but good info about coaching and jr. developement programs do not exist.
If anyone can give advise on how to obtain info about coaching and jr. developement programs to a Dutch trainer/coach will be very much apreciated.
Thanks JPOC, for a good posting and a clear explanation. I have learned much from it.
Albert, (The Netherlands)
If anyone can give advise on how to obtain info about coaching and jr. developement programs to a Dutch trainer/coach will be very much apreciated.
Thanks JPOC, for a good posting and a clear explanation. I have learned much from it.
Albert, (The Netherlands)
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Richard Newman
Where next?
Bob Foth makes a good point about needing a more detailed plan. I agree. The problem is that for those of us on the "outside" of USAS is that we lack the necessary data to generate a detailed business plan. For example:
I suggested an outreach to the many clubs who are not part of USAS. Send a promotional package, an "Introduction to Olympic and International Shooting" In the package would be an introduction to the different kinds of events, basic rules, some bios of our Olympic shooters, and suggestions for holding an informal "olympic style" match. INclude some sample targets, so that anyone interested can try them. Offer a low cost package for running such an informal match, including targets, rules, and a reporting sheet to go back to USAS. Obviously the rules on firearms would be relaxed. Shoot what you own. Time limits and scoring would be ISSF. Given the score sheet from the match, USAS would provide some certificates or similar awards to the top TBD%. Be generous, we're trying to encourage the shooters, not select for the National Team. INclude a form for any club which wants to have a continuing contact with USAS. Low cost or no cost - most clubs don't have much money. Maybe a special "club membership". Provide those clubs with continuing support - perhaps a quarterly coaching bulletin, opportunity to schedule a USAS coaching session such as Bob Foth provides, or some other way of showing an interest in helping the club.
So...
All the above is a high level concept, without all the details worked out - club info, costs, personnel time, etc. Nor are decisions such as - do you provide the same package to junior clubs and senior clubs? Where do we get the club lists and data? Etc. ETC. ETC. Details l can't provide, and the devil is in the details. If the above - or any other - idea is of potential value, I think USAS needs to indicate an interest, and help move that idea from concept to implementation. I know that if asked I would be more than happy to discuss the ideas with USAS and, yes, maybe even do some work on helping develop the concept. As a (very) long time systems engineer, I look at developing such a program as a top down analysis - Start with the goals, develop the requirements for fulfilling the goals, find solutions to meet the requirements and then implement and test them. The approach works. I just got back from three days at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, where they shoot MUCH bigger guns than we do. But that approach is still the way its done.
Which is why I keep hoping that USAS will respond in some way. Bob Foth has been communicative and helpful, but I haven't seen him indicate that he was speaking for USAS. And I still believe that USAS must be the focus and lead in this effort.
Richard Newman
I suggested an outreach to the many clubs who are not part of USAS. Send a promotional package, an "Introduction to Olympic and International Shooting" In the package would be an introduction to the different kinds of events, basic rules, some bios of our Olympic shooters, and suggestions for holding an informal "olympic style" match. INclude some sample targets, so that anyone interested can try them. Offer a low cost package for running such an informal match, including targets, rules, and a reporting sheet to go back to USAS. Obviously the rules on firearms would be relaxed. Shoot what you own. Time limits and scoring would be ISSF. Given the score sheet from the match, USAS would provide some certificates or similar awards to the top TBD%. Be generous, we're trying to encourage the shooters, not select for the National Team. INclude a form for any club which wants to have a continuing contact with USAS. Low cost or no cost - most clubs don't have much money. Maybe a special "club membership". Provide those clubs with continuing support - perhaps a quarterly coaching bulletin, opportunity to schedule a USAS coaching session such as Bob Foth provides, or some other way of showing an interest in helping the club.
So...
All the above is a high level concept, without all the details worked out - club info, costs, personnel time, etc. Nor are decisions such as - do you provide the same package to junior clubs and senior clubs? Where do we get the club lists and data? Etc. ETC. ETC. Details l can't provide, and the devil is in the details. If the above - or any other - idea is of potential value, I think USAS needs to indicate an interest, and help move that idea from concept to implementation. I know that if asked I would be more than happy to discuss the ideas with USAS and, yes, maybe even do some work on helping develop the concept. As a (very) long time systems engineer, I look at developing such a program as a top down analysis - Start with the goals, develop the requirements for fulfilling the goals, find solutions to meet the requirements and then implement and test them. The approach works. I just got back from three days at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, where they shoot MUCH bigger guns than we do. But that approach is still the way its done.
Which is why I keep hoping that USAS will respond in some way. Bob Foth has been communicative and helpful, but I haven't seen him indicate that he was speaking for USAS. And I still believe that USAS must be the focus and lead in this effort.
Richard Newman