Front sight drops as match progresses

[VonKasta]

My question/problem: On my ap I have my grip angle adjusted so that sights line up with my wrist in a relaxed state, or at least thats what I thought. But as I get deeper into the match my front sight drops and Im not really sure where this happens. Im also not sure this is a progressive issue as my results doesnt really drop off in a linear fashion, its more that I all of a sudden has a string of bad shots from forcing the trigger ’before the sight drops’.
I feel I have a fairly constant grip so I dont think thats it, I also dont think my shoulder position changes.
My hand getting warm and changing shape a little? Its possible. Muscles/tendons in my forearm that stretches so that my wrist tilts? Also possible. Something else? Feel free to fill in.
Any ideas how to go about to resolve this? Set an even more aggressive grip angle? Weight training? Better warm up procedure?
Or is this just normal and I need to stop whining and shoot more tens?

Oh, to add, this is mostly a 10m/50m issue, cant really say it happens at 25m.

[brent375hh]

Is it possible that when you set up for a relaxed state that your tendons stretch, or relax, over the course of 60 shots?

The other possible thing that I can think of is that as your hand sweats, you gun slips down until it is stopped by the rear of your palm rest?

[VonKasta]

Is it possible that when you set up for a relaxed state that your tendons stretch, or relax, over the course of 60 shots?

The other possible thing that I can think of is that as your hand sweats, you gun slips down until it is stopped by the rear of your palm rest?

Both things you mention sounds likely. I could be wrong about me thinking my grip is constant as well, shouldnt rule anything out.
Perhaps I should try to set my angle a little bit more aggressive and do a couple practice matches to feel it out

[thirdwheel]

Not focusing on front sight and letting focus wander and letting the target impinge into your total sight picture, if you watch the front sight it will not drop in relation to the back sight because you will rectify it.

[Pat McCoy]

Im also not sure this is a progressive issue as my results doesnt really drop off in a linear fashion, its more that I all of a sudden has a string of bad shots from forcing the trigger ’before the sight drops’.

Sounds like more of a mental discipline problem if you are thinking about forcing the trigger instead of your normal pre-shot mental key.

You could try shooting an oddball number of shots (87 or 91, etc) to away from thinking of score and "the end of the match". See if you continue to have the drop off.

[JamesHH]

Maybe you're tilting your head forward, if that happens it appears the foresight is dropping.

The more I concentrate the more I tilt my head forward unless I remember not to.

Otherwise its an issue with the raked air pistol grips that due to the angle of rake your wrist has little strength.

[GaryN]

quote
its more that I all of a sudden has a string of bad shots from forcing the trigger ’before the sight drops’.
end quote

So you are rushing the shot before the sight drops. Sounds like a "self-fulfilling prophesy."

Try going back to an old recommendation. DRY FIRE.
Try to HOLD the sight picture, fire, then follow through and continue holding the sight picture for a few seconds AFTER the hammer falls.
Do this for 60 shots.
You might be losing concentration and relaxing your grip too soon, causing the AP to droop, just as the hammer falls.

As for the grip:
Try holding the AP, then relax the fingers on the front of the grip, so that the AP is supported by the palm shelf.
If the AP droops, then it is your fingers that are pulling the pistol up. And your fingers are getting tired as you progress through the match.
I adjust my palm rest so that I can hold my fingers loose.

Not in your case, but this happened OFTEN when I shot my 747. The problem was that my hand sweat, and that caused the plastic grip to get slippery, and the gun would slip and rotate in my hand. I could not hold my sweaty hand tight enough to keep it from slipping. The problem are that the 747 does not have a palm shelf, and the plastic grip is slippery. My solution was to put a small square of "non-skid" material on the backstrap, and that provided enough friction, that even with the sweaty hand, the grip would not slip.

It could also be as was mentioned, that during the match, the tendon on the top of your forearm (as you hold the pistol), is stretching. Thus allowing the AP to droop.

Another thought. Are you CERTAIN, that you are pulling the trigger STRAIGHT BACK.
If you are pulling the trigger downward, that could be contributing to the drooping sight effect.
I used to have a similar problem, but to the left side, because I did not pull STRAIGHT BACK, I was pushing the trigger and the gun to the left. It took quite a bit of dry firing to figure that one out, and a whole LOT of dry firing to train my finger to pull STRAIGHT BACK.


About tilting the head.
I used to do that, and sometimes still do when I am not paying attention.
What I did was to lower and tilt my head so that my cheek is resting on my shoulder (like shooting a rifle), I tilt my head forward, looking along the top of my arm, and I aim out of the top left quadrant of my eye (just like when shooting a rifle).
After getting a sore neck from years of doing that, I switched to an upright position, where I hold my head upright, and raise the pistol UP to my eye level. I do not remember who taught me to do that.

[David M]

My question/problem: On my ap I have my grip angle adjusted so that sights line up with my wrist in a relaxed state, or at least thats what I thought.

Grip does not sound right.
In a "relaxed state" for a right handed shooter your grip should be slightly up and right so that when you tension the grip to shooting pressure,then the sights will align.
The sight may still be a little high (very small amount) as you drop into your aiming area and you tension the wrist down, you do not want to have your sights under aligned and have to lift them.
You don't want too much rake on a Airpistol (medium) and a little more rake on a Free pistol.

[VonKasta]

Thank you everybody, plenty of great insight and now I have a lot of ideas to work with. The more you learn the less you know.

[ArTee]

Don Nygord always told me it was my training and lack of stamina specific to the sport. His recommendations are still out there on the web. Look them up. Train train, train. This is not a cake walk. This is an Olympic level sport!

BTW I'm not at that level, not even close. But I do know what I should have done years ago. And with age I can say do as Don did, not as I do.

RT

[seamaster]

I agree with coach thirwheel. It is the gradual lack of focus on front tight that caused the slight drop.

For me, it is focusing on top edge of front sight, and not on the black abyss of middle front sight, over time, that caused the drops on shots.