Effect of Belleville washers in LP10 regulator

[seamaster]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Pre ... _320322791

I “cleaned up” my LP10 regulator, installed new seals last year. I did not pay attention to orientation of those Belleville washers. I just put them in one after another, counter faced. I noticed pistol seems to shoot more powerful, with very clean, sharp holes. I assume it is shooting more vigorously. My Combro was rusty dead, so I have no chronograph velocity confirmation. But I assume speed is increased.

Today, I came across this wonderful diagram that explained how inner working of things interacted.

So velocity could be increased by 1)lengthening Belleville washers overall width, which gives more air PRESSURE flow, or 2) by adjusting striker coil force to give it more TIME for pressure flow.

There are 9 washers in that diagram, two stacked together, all others counter faced. My LP10 has 8 washers, and I stack them all counterfaced. So probably wider over all, ergo, more pressure flow, higher velocity.

I am getting only 60-70 shots per cylinder refill, so my velocity/ air wastage is probably high.

Should I adjust Belleville washers tighter? or decrease my velocity screw? to get down on velocity.

Which way will save me more air?

I assume decrease velocity screw would be more beneficial, since less strike force would mean less striker vibration. Agree or no?

[David M]

PDf of washer arrangement.

1537926084_13144700615baae3c4f392f7.34442519_Regulator info Steyr 2016.pdf

(39.66 KiB) Downloaded 246 times

[Gwhite]

The exact arrangement of the springs is critical. How many are in "series" & how many are in "parallel" allows the factory to tune the pressure the regulator puts out. Here's a tutorial on how they work:

http://springipedia.com/belleville-washers-stacking.asp

[seamaster]

But let’s say you arranged Belleville washers to shoot higher energy, but use velocity screw to bring it down to par.

It is a bad thing ?

[brent375hh]

You want to have a lower pressure and more dwell time on the firing valve. Lets say you have your springs set up for 120 bar instead of 60 bar. Your guns ability to shoot consistently just dropped in half before you need more air pressure. You will only get even velocity until your cylinder matches your gun pressure. You may also be shooting way too fast and wasting air, a chronograph is what you need now, once you are sure you have your washers stacked correctly.

[seamaster]

No, we are discussing the opposite.

Bellevilles stack up in series for slightly higher energy, then drop velocity screw dwell time down for shorter, quicker release and less forceful striking vibration.

Same final velocity, but less vibration ?

Serious mental derangement, or worthwhile outside of box thinking?

[brent375hh]

Your shot to shot variations will be higher. It's outside the box thinking but not in a good way.

Think about why the gun has a regulator to start with.

Lets go to an extreme example. If you could arrange your washers to have a pressure of 2500 psi and then adjust your striker to barely open the valve, and then set it up to shoot at 550 fps. Now, as soon as you go from 3000 psi to 2500 psi, which won't take long, every shot will be slower under 2500 psi. Minor variations in dwell time at 2500psi will be less forgiving that 800 psi. The engineers knew what they were doing.

Why are you looking for more power out of a target gun? It can easily be set up to shoot 550 fps with the regulator as designed. Also the seals in the gun will go flat and distort faster with a higher regulated pressure.

[seamaster]

Your 2500psi is greatly exaggerated. The Bellevilles, even serially installed, would probably give you only 700psi. We are talking about at max, 50-75 increase in FPS, which is easily adjusted by the velocity screw.

The Bellevilles are serially placed from the factory, so it comes with max PSI, as to prevent a lunkhead like me from goofing around with it. With any other Belleville orientation arrangement, PSI will only go down.

[brent375hh]

I used the 2500 number exaggerated on purpose to illustrate the point that trying to increase pressure would not help you in regards to accuracy or air usage. I used a light coat of Super Lube on my regulator o-rings. It now performs a very consistent velocity.

If you look at the Steyr diagram, the range is 60-140 bar, with additional spacers installed. That is 800-2000 psi. Mine was set up for 60. I left It the way it came.

[spektr]

Belleville washers are one of the reasons that the correct lubricants are used sparingly. A
petroleum oil with the wrong composition can glue things together when it gets old and dries out.
Silicone oils resist this the best of the oils we commonly have available, and a tiny bit used to lube tank threads seems to be enough to keep the washers happy. your mileage may differ, but my P44 seems to love the stuff and it also protects the aluminum threads from galling....