Improve the FAS 6004

[clarky]

For the C clip i have actually used a plastic pen top. One with a gradual angle coming to a point. Great for driving apart the C clip and shoving it from its location, without damaging the paint finish but i now have a plastic wedge shape tool i made.

As regard the velocities, you are over thinking it.
All of these SSP arrangements...Gamo Compact, HW75, HW40, Air Venturi etc, ..produce velocities of approx 400 fps give or take but the FAS does not. It requires a bit of work to do so.
Once the seal issue is rectified and the breach issue addressed, it will rise from approx 330 Fps to 370 fps and then onto 410 fps with a little piston pack...(due to it being the most under compressed of the above)
Plus or minus a 1000 ft is probably the least of your concerns..

[ArTee]

Thanks again. Might you provide a photo of this tool you made?

As for over thinking it, being retired 85% the answer is 100% yep.

The piston work might be beyond me. I'm still waiting for the chrono to get a reading on where the gun is now. Then I'll decide what I might do. I do like it and off hand it's not bad even with the iron sights. Thankfully I have the Champion shooting glasses, diopter selection kit and the iris from last century when I was shooting some air rifle, and competition 22 bullseye with the Metro Pistol League in VA.

RT

[ArTee]

Okay, made that. Now is there a special tool/claw that fits into the 2 slots to open the piston up or can that be home made? I hate to keep bothering you but there is so little out there.

BTW my wife laughed re overthinking things. She says I drive her nuts sometimes.

RT

[ArTee]

Just to be clear I'm referring to the screw in End Cap, (part 14 that is called the Ring Nut?)

RT

[ArTee]

would it be a pin wrench and if so any type in particular or am I over thinking it (ha) again?

[clarky]

You do not need a special tool to undo the piston rod bearing.
I use 2 pin punches shoved into both holes, holding with one hand and turning anti clockwise frees it off and then unscrewing with just your fingers. It is not very tight and you should not do it up very tight, or you will strip the threads.

You can easily do a DIY piston pack, without being a skilled machinist. Do not get me wrong, its better if it is a solid re-machine but many piston pack with a bit of shim of plastic, or shim metal cut with scissors to a circle. ..

[Gwhite]

Just a quick tip for folks: If you need a proper pin spanner for something like this, they make relatively inexpensive (~ $10) ones for bicycle work. Park is a common brand, and they have two models with different sized pins:

SPA-1 (Green) has round pin ends with a diameter of 2.9mm
SPA-2 (Red) has round pin ends with a diameter of 2.3mm

I suspect there are other sizes out there, but these work for quite a few European air pistol chores.

[ArTee]

I forgot all about them. I have a whole set of bike tools that I don't use anymore. I went and dug through them. The green ones fit the FAS end cap. My threads are very tight.
Thanks. BTW I pronounce it "FAZ 6004". Seems as most spell the letters out.

On another note has anyone recently compared the FAS to the Sig? Fas offers a 1 year warranty and SIG offers a 5 year with what appears to be the same internals. That's rather strange unless there is something specific that makes them different in quality. BTW the FAS warranty booklet has an exploded view of he parts (not great highly faded quality) and the SIG has none! Now that's odd.

[clarky]

SIG has been better finished...better quality control of barrel finishing at the breach and an improved seal fitting.
Finish of main frame improved from the Webley Tempest like finish of the FAS to a satin anodised like finish.
Cylinder and valve are shared between the 2 guns, as is the piston rod.

However, if you have the skills to put right the issues detailed here for the FAS, it is a far superior design and will get more from it as follows..
Range of grip options, from a far superior Ambi grip, or 3 Target grip options, allowing perfect fit.
All grip options allow a more dropped hand style, typically preferred by Target shooters.
Gun design, sits lower in the hand.
Sidelever opening is more ideal than hammer cocking.
FAS sight base is longer between sights because there is no hammer getting in the way. The SIg sight requiring to be placed further forward due to hammer position.
Looks...no contest..The FAS is the best looking pistol ever made.

[ArTee]

It was mentioned that by replacing the Main Piston Seal (o-ring 17.13x2.62 mm VITON) with a Quad seal aka X seal at 17x 2.5 mm it would create a more efficient system. Are those numbers correct as is?

Does anyone know a distributor in the US and a part number? Is there an inch equivalent that can be searched or is it metric or nothing? Short of piston packing and along with the other mods to the breech as indicated this should add bringing the FAS up to speed, pardon the pun.


RT

[Rover]

I posted this a few days ago, but no response (yet). Maybe one of you has something to say.

http://targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62601

[clarky]

I used a quad seal (X seal) kit from RS Components.

[ArTee]

which kit number?

[ArTee]

I believe I found a company in New Hampshire that has the exact size (17.13x 2.62 VITON quad seal) as the current Main Piston Seal. They do not have 17x2.5. as you mentioned in your earlier emails. If that's correct, and the slight difference is not a factor, and they have them in stock would you recommend it? If so, I'll get a few of them if the price is not through the roof with a minimum required order. They should be back to me tomorrow since today is a holiday (USA term).

RT

[ArTee]

I'm going to order a few of these. The minimum order is way more than I can use so I'll be happy to sell them to anyone who wants a few. They are .75 cents each plus shipping costs. As Clarky mentioned short of piston packing, replacing the Main Piston Seal with X-rings along with the breech fix should bring the FPS up to a reasonable speed.

RT

[ArTee]

Why, if Sig is using the same barrel as Chiappa in the 6004, will the 6004 not shoot the H&N tin pellets and the Sig will? I'm getting 415 fps and good groups with the SIG and 365 fps with the FAS. Is there a reliable fix? The 6004 feels a lot better in my hand (comp grip), the sight picture is better and having nothing to do with function, looks better. But I'd rather use tin then lead.

[clarky]

...because the barrel of the Sig was produced at a much later time than the production run of the 6004 barrels and they having ironed out the snags of breach entry and sealing....in a nut shell.

Its a sinch to put the 6004 barrel into the same condition if you follow the advice here.

[ArTee]

I redid the barrel on the 6004 last night and I'm waiting for a new pump seal and washer. It appears like the photos in the directions herein. Then I'll see how it works with tin. With lead it's dead on and that's not bad for a gun with this quality and at this price, and that includes the SIG too. The extra $$ that the 6004 costs with the adjustable comp grips (and they look and feel like Morini's) would in total be similar, plus or minus a few cents, if I had to purchase them from RINK, NIL or Morini, that is IF they made them for the SIG. I would be willing to for the SIG but again they are not being made.

NIL makes them and they are standard for the new SIG-P210 Target 22 model (along with adjustable rear sight) at a few hundred dollars more then the other model (just like the 6004 ambi vs adjustable comp). They feel pretty good.

The back strap on the ASP is a bit to big and digs into the snuff box part of the hold and the grip feels too wide (my hand) though my fingers line up under the trigger guard as they should. There is no magazine to be inserted so why the mass? The molded in front sight could use some work, even making it a replaceable blade of different widths. However that again might trigger a price increase and I'm guessing the price point here is a major point.

[ArTee]

I couldn't wait for the O-ring or washer. I simply wanted fresh guts in a revised gun so no variables. Right now I'm getting 396 fps with tin, reliable and it hits where I'm aiming. I'll zero in soon.

The redo on the breech and re-cleaning up the edges works as long as the pellet is placed in tightly. That's one key. This is good.

THANK YOU

[nelson cain]

Does anyone have any o rings or shim for sale to do the mods to my 6004. Also does anyone do these mods for other people?