Crosman Challenger - Good or bad?

[Trooperjake]

Can some of our experts give me an expert commentary on the Crosman Challenger Sporter Air Rifle?

I am not wild about the Air Tube, not being replaceable.

What do you think of the AdJustments, Accuracy, repair record, Sights, etc.

Is there another Rifle that a shooter can start with and transfer to Precision at a later time?

Can a Anschutz Club Air Rifle be used for Sporter?

Thank you in advance....

[rtucker6508]

Best sporter rifle... hands down.

[jhmartin]

Best sporter rifle... hands down.

Let me correct this statement:
Best low-cost precision rifle .... the CMP only pushes it as a sporter!

[TenMetrePeter]

The British made Air Arms S400 MPR Sporter is making great inroads into teenage sporter and "sprint" shooting in UK. Based on the rugged S400 engine modified to 6 ft lbs with rmovable cylinder it is a great option. Add 30mm butt spacers and it is full adult size.
(I only assume it complies with US sporter rules however).

https://www.air-arms.co.uk/uncategorize ... bby-warren

https://www.targetsprint.com

[jhmartin]

We've been talking about CMP 3-P Air Sporter rifles.
The MPRs are not legal for that event.

The S/T200 (depending on the vendor) Sporters are legal and I have a few of those and some of the older XSV-40's (same basis).
They are fine guns, but again CMP discriminates against the more modern MPRs because of cost.
The S200 guns are fine CMP sporters, but the are kinda light and you have to add weight. We use them almost exclusively for our younger shooters.

Crosman is able to keep the gun cost down due to the volume of guns they make and sell them as loss leaders to the JROTC cadet commands in the thousands. Without those sales, they would be far out of the Sporter $525 limit. Retail of the Challenger is about $650 with sights. The games Crosman is able to get away with ......

[TenMetrePeter]

Right! I found thr CMP rules now. Dont get much for 600 bucks! Quite close to the 3.4kg limit too.

Interesting that CMP Precision air rifle rules 4.4.5 and 4.4.7 address the "Palm rest " conundrum by utilizing ISSF rules but explaining the difference between palm rests and fore end risers in a way that ISSF have not managed to do.

[rtucker6508]

Best sporter rifle... hands down.

Let me correct this statement:
Best low-cost precision rifle .... the CMP only pushes it as a sporter!

Yes, what Mr Martin says!

[gspell68]

First off, almost all kids seem to love them over any other kind of sporter rifle.

If you are in the market for one, this is the best deal...
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... em=CH2009S
They have a better rear diopter than the earlier ones and adjust like precision sights. The sights alone are $125.

But yes, it is certainly the best sporter air rifle available since the price has to stay under $600 and the trigger pull has to be more than 1½ pounds (most precision rifles probably cannot even be adjusted as high as 6 ounces).
Both my kids have been pretty successful and have had few good days of shooting 560+/600 and routinely shoot above 540/600.

My kids' JROTC rifle team has even been to some competitions that they actually outshoot the precision teams (and theoretically should've medaled!)
Here's one that comes to mind.
Check out the first place sporter team score and the precision scores...
https://www.orionresults.com/team/Match ... 68490508.0

As for some of the other questions, I haven't seen any maintenance issues with the 10 that get used daily at my kids' school other than the sear pin is rather fragile.
I broke two while de-gassing them for air travel and one broke during training, but they are a cheap ($6) fix and my kid fixed two of them after I showed him how to do the first one.
I saw one that got really hard to cock at a national competition (it was actually the national champion's gun and had probably had a bazillion pellets put through it), but I researched it out of curiosity later on an found the fix.
Other than that, I've never seen any other maintenance issues out of hundreds I've seen shot.

And they are fairly adjustable, but sometimes it doesn't matter.
It wasn't until we were at a national championship at the end of my son's second year of shooting when he told me he had never adjusted the stock or cheek piece since he'd gotten it from the previous shooter!
I asked my other son, too, when we got home and he'd never adjusted his in the year he'd been shooting.

In fact, yesterday my youngest kid tried precision for the first time with a $2,300 "space rifle" and actually did worse than he would have if he would have used his Challenger 2009...

[TenMetrePeter]

1.5 lb trigger would put any decent air rifle out of the running. Surprised the T200 can be set that heavy.

[gspell68]

I experimented on a couple of the Crossman Challengers.
You can completely remove the trigger weight adjustment screw and it still never gets light enough to fail the 1.5 pound test.
I've read the same from others...

[wasatch]

The 'lawyer' spring can be removed from the trigger group to reduce pull weight.
Scroll down in this thread: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51989

[atomicgale]

"Sporter Rifle" Choices are these:

1. Crossman Challenger: Budget: $550 "all-day-long"
2. Air Arms T200: $525 on Pyramidair.com, (also on Airgundepot - whose website shuts down: All-Day-Long.)
3. CHAMPION's CHOICE: Mod T200 Sporter Air Rifle!!! $550.

Crossman Challenger: Avail. at Walmart.com & others . . .
Air Arms T200: pyramid & airgundepot
CHAMPIONS CHOICE: http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... &item=T200

I. Problem with the Crossman is: It's a 2,000 psi system, and requires a $100+ regulator to link to standard scuba tanks. Plus, a bunch of other expensive b.s.
II. Problem with the generic "Air-Arms" is it's a generic LUMP OF WOOD for a stock.

III. The Champion's Choice T200 has:
1. Adjustable cheek piece w/ spacers
2. Adjustable Length-of-Pull; w/ spacers
3. The fore-grip is level (NOT angled-vertically like on the mail-order "Air-Arms")
4. Separate Butt stock/Grip from the Foregrip (NOT one-piece like on the mail order . . . )
5. a private company that stands behind the gun

CONCLUSION: Literally just bought a Champion's Choice T200 from LaVergne in lieu of the two other widely-available choices.

TrooperJake will have to pay the TN 9.75% sales tax, downside $$$.

After having held & shot a thousand guns . . . the $550 Champion's Choice rifle is Turn-key and ready to go!

[wasatch]

I. Problem with the Crossman is: It's a 2,000 psi system, and requires a $100+ regulator to link to standard scuba tanks. Plus, a bunch of other expensive b.s.

I'm not following you here: I connect my Challenger straight to my 4500psi bottle using a foster fitting, open the bottle valve slowly, the check valve clicks open, air flows and I close the bottle valve when the gauge reads 2000psi. There is no regulator between my bottle and the air cylinder on the gun.

What other expensive b.s.?

[TenMetrePeter]

I. Problem with the Crossman is: It's a 2,000 psi system, and requires a $100+ regulator to link to standard scuba tanks. Plus, a bunch of other expensive b.s.

I'm not following you here: I connect my Challenger straight to my 4500psi bottle using a foster fitting, open the bottle valve slowly, the check valve clicks open, air flows and I close the bottle valve when the gauge reads 2000psi. There is no regulator between my bottle and the air cylinder on the gun.

What other expensive b.s.?

Completely agree! This "regulated fill" BS comes from clubs providing idiot proof centralized filling station like piglets on a sow. Typically paintballers?
All you need, like you say, is a valve and a gauge.

PS. The Air Arms S200T and the Champions choice T200 are both re-badged guns from the same Czech factory. AirArms pellets are relabelled JSB .And so it goes on.

[jhmartin]

Completely agree! This "regulated fill" BS comes from clubs providing idiot proof centralized filling station like piglets on a sow. Typically paintballers?

No... typically high school JROTC programs. Have you ever extensively worked with teenagers? Their minds are not always on the task at hand ... pretty girl, cute guy, something shiney ....

In instances like that it's better to have it ... or if there is a 3000psi tank right next to it for Precision shooters.
If you've ever seen that plastic cap on the front end of the CH2009 go flying when one overfills the tank, then maybe a regulator would seem like a good idea.

[TenMetrePeter]

No I havent worked with teenagers and given them freedom to prat about with scuba air unsupervised. I would be surprised if it were even legal in my country.

Shooting programs in UK high schools? I wish!

[GaryN]

Completely agree! This "regulated fill" BS comes from clubs providing idiot proof centralized filling station like piglets on a sow. Typically paintballers?

No... typically high school JROTC programs. Have you ever extensively worked with teenagers? Their minds are not always on the task at hand ... pretty girl, cute guy, something shiney ....

In instances like that it's better to have it ... or if there is a 3000psi tank right next to it for Precision shooters.
If you've ever seen that plastic cap on the front end of the CH2009 go flying when one overfills the tank, then maybe a regulator would seem like a good idea.

I have, and sometimes it is quite frustrating to deal with.
You forgot listening to music and singing as they do other stuff.

Some teenagers are serious and reliable, and other less so, or worse.
The bad ones, you eventually have to weed out, but they will make mistakes along the way.

Teens can be serious for X period of time, then they go back to being teens.
Example, serious with a rifle in their hand, but once the rifle is put away, they become playful teens.

But sometimes it is not the kid at fault, but the buddy/team-mate who bothers and distracts him as he is trying to do work (fill the air tank), as teenagers often do.

I think the saying is, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."
Murphy will be there waiting for his chance.

[atomicgale]

@Wasatch: Generally linking a high-pressure tank rated to 2,000psi directly to a 4,500psi fill tank is a DARWIN AWARD waiting to happen.

Hence, the regulator: $106 - $116 at Champions Choice. Here's the link: http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... tem=FAH003

Other on-liner's offer the Crossman WITHOUT sights, so add $$$. (Wally-World = no sights.)

And other "Expensive B.S." like the lawsuit that follows when someone blows their hand or face off when following your brilliant advice of hooking it straight to 4,500psi and "just watch the valve."


Now, back on topic: The Crossman is a GREAT rifle, however, for my money I'd go with the T200 from Champion's Choice (yes, it's the exact same receiver as Air Arms (CZ). My point is the cheek riser, and spacers make for a custom fit on the T200 compared to the generic wood stock you get on the Air Arms from AirGunDepot or PyramidAir.)

[wasatch]

You think operating a quality valve in coordination with a quality gauge is overly dangerous and you are operating guns?

Do you drive a car?

[TenMetrePeter]

Agreed Wasatch.
And if these gifted kids think all they need to do is latch onto the system and do Twitbook while it fills, what happens when they fill some place where grown ups operate and nobody explained how to do it properly?
"Hey mom at school it didn't go bang like that."
You cover against accidents by instruction and supervision not technology that may not always be there or adjusted correctly.