Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[hurt]

Dave, as an aside, i am still shooting your fast twist barrel in my Pardini 32 long...and i really like it! It has taken me a while to get the hang of loading for the long line...but i am getting good results(sometimes i get one to stray a bit with the Speer bullets that are available)...but...i wonder about the hornady jacketed bullet. Could a 32 Short cartridge be loaded with the hollow point and be safely chambered, and fired, in the long chamber? If so, do you think it could be accurate? Thanks

[Bullseye26]

Has anyone ever used a .32 to win at Canton or Perry?

[Dipnet]

Emil Milev was the Expert Civilian class center fire winner in 2014 shooting the Pardini 32 ACP, 869-31X. The overall centerfire winner was Jim Henderson 882-34x; he is an AMU member (I don't know what he was shooting). dipnet

[oldcaster]

Dave, as an aside, i am still shooting your fast twist barrel in my Pardini 32 long...and i really like it! It has taken me a while to get the hang of loading for the long line...but i am getting good results(sometimes i get one to stray a bit with the Speer bullets that are available)...but...i wonder about the hornady jacketed bullet. Could a 32 Short cartridge be loaded with the hollow point and be safely chambered, and fired, in the long chamber? If so, do you think it could be accurate? Thanks

Some of the guys in my group experimented with this idea and were doing OK but when we started to use the #323 bullet from Saeco in the long case there was no longer a reason. Some used Speer for the short line and the 323's for the long line.

If you do go the short case route, the best way to get brass is to shorten the long cases although one fellow was just using round nose bullets and seating them deep. At the time they were experimenting they couldn't even find the short cases and he felt that if the bullet had a place to slide that was smaller than the chamber size, it might help.

[kubikula78]

Hi to everybody,

finally I made enough accurate ammo to me.....for 25 meters shooting.

This is ARES 100gr lead WC made in Slovakia,.314 diameter, 2,0gr Vihtavuori N320, light crimp just before end of bullet.

The group is 10 shots on 25 meters, sights needs to be set of course, but I was concentrated to the best possible group.


Jakub

[oldcaster]

Jakub, Are the bullets cast or swaged, hard lead or soft, and did you have to expand the inside of your cases very much.

[kubikula78]

Bullets are cast, the lead is hard (I have tried ARES bullets in my 9mm Luger and they are good with higher speeds and also very accurate).

I am not sure about what you mean with expanding cases.......I am using only RCBS Die....first calibrate case for proper diameter, second do small bell on end of case for seating bullet, third seats the bullet inside case and last one is for crimp. I am not using seating die for seating and crimping together, but I have separate die only for crimp. This is more work for me but I am doing this to protect bullet against any scratches when crimp is almost done but seating is not.

[fc60]

Greetings Jakub,

Compliments of fine loading technique.

What pistol/revolver are you using?

Is the gun held in a mechanical rest?

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

Bullets are cast, the lead is hard (I have tried ARES bullets in my 9mm Luger and they are good with higher speeds and also very accurate).

I am not sure about what you mean with expanding cases.

If you are using relatively soft lead it is usually necessary to expand your cases with a larger expander than comes with the standard dies. If you don't and your brass has too small of an inside diameter it will squeeze your bullet to a smaller diameter and be inconsistent in where and how much it squeezes it giving you inaccurate loads. I too don't like to seat and crimp with the same die.

[kubikula78]

Greetings Jakub,

Compliments of fine loading technique.

What pistol/revolver are you using?

Is the gun held in a mechanical rest?

Cheers,

Dave

Morning Dave,

thanks for your compliment....everything what I know about reloading is from my dad....god bless him:-)

The pistol is Hammerli, similar to Pardini HP 32....it is not mine....just friend of mine ask me to do some ammo for him to decrease price...here in Czech Republic is factory .32SWL pretty expensive

The gun was not held in mechanical rest, I am using home made wooden support ( if you want I can send some picture.....it is simple and it works).....so it is similar to use sand bag.


Sorry for my not perfect english....hope you understand what I mean:-)



Jakub

[kubikula78]

Bullets are cast, the lead is hard (I have tried ARES bullets in my 9mm Luger and they are good with higher speeds and also very accurate).

I am not sure about what you mean with expanding cases.

If you are using relatively soft lead it is usually necessary to expand your cases with a larger expander than comes with the standard dies. If you don't and your brass has too small of an inside diameter it will squeeze your bullet to a smaller diameter and be inconsistent in where and how much it squeezes it giving you inaccurate loads. I too don't like to seat and crimp with the same die.

Hi Oldcaster,

now I know what you mean but I never used bigger expander....just the standart die. I am shooting 2 calibers.....32SWL from my competition revolver and 9Luger from my Pardini GT9 and I have never problem with not enough expanded case. I am always using bullet 0.001 bigger then my bore is.....314 for 32SWL and .356 for 9Luger. Only for FMJ .355.
But your point is very interesting for me.

Thanks and regards

Jakub

[oldcaster]

Jakub, If you are using a hard lead bullet, the case is not strong enough to squeeze your bullet to a smaller size, but when using a harder bullet it is not as forgiving about size compared to bore so it is more difficult to get accuracy. In other words it is possible to get accuracy with a hard bullet but everything has to be just right.

Don't worry about your English. We will get by that and so far you have been quite understandable. A typical American wouldn't know what we are talking about.

[jmdavis]

Emil Milev was the Expert Civilian class center fire winner in 2014 shooting the Pardini 32 ACP, 869-31X. The overall centerfire winner was Jim Henderson 882-34x; he is an AMU member (I don't know what he was shooting). dipnet

Alex Chickhov shot an 873-36x with the 32acp in 2015 to win the expert class with irons.

[jbzeus]

I'm curious. There has been some talk of bullet hardness and some feel softer is best. There has also been some talk of swaged bullets and wouldn't it be nice if there was a source. An alternative would be to swag your own maybe with a Corbin setup. Really not cost effective unless you shot a ton. My real question is how important is the bullet profile? Are the Corbin offerings able to shoot accurate enough to take advantage of the softer swaged alloy? I suppose you could also hollow point like the Zeros are with the swager.

[fc60]

Greetings,

Interesting question.

I cast bullets with 20:1 Lead:Tin alloy for 32 ACP testing. The rejects get swaged rather than melted down. The Swaged bullets shoot X-ring at 50 yards in a factory Pardini barrel via a mechanical rest.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... 60#p237483

The cast bullets do not shoot as well.

I have also cast the same bullets using LinoType metal. These tend to shoot better than the 20:1 bullets.

When time allows, I plan to continue testing with cast bullets as swaging is a bit more labor intensive.

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

I am not too concerned with what the alloy is but keep my BHN around 8-9. This has to do with the problem of when going softer it is very difficult to do a good job of casting. Years ago when everyone shot Star swaged in their 45's which had a BHN around 5-6 no one looked for something more accurate. After they went out of business I bought 2000 rounds from the manufacturer who was supposed to have bought their equipment. They actually did not even look the same with the hollow point being a different size and they shot terrible which shows that just because they are swaged and close to the same shape doesn't mean they are accurate. I went back to casting at that time because nothing commercial did as well as the old Star bullets or my own cast. With bought bullets I always do better when they are swaged but their BHN is now around 10 which is just about what the 20 -1 alloy is.

Bullet shape can be very important and I generally stay away from truncated bullets. No guarantee that you can't get them to shoot well but in my 45 I have always had poor results with them so I don't make any effort to see if I can do better with any of them. I had someone send me some swaged truncated 32 ACP bullets and they did not perform however I don't know for sure why they didn't shoot well.

When casting with soft lead, it is critical how you do it especially with a bullet as small as the 32. I always pressure pour if the mold is good enough quality to handle it. I also poor as slowly as practical which gives less opportunity for dirt to be in the center of your bullet because when the alloy doesn't rush into the cavity, dirt has a better chance to float to the sprue.

When using a very hard alloy the liquid is more fluent and has less surface tension which is why a puddle of it is not as tall so it is easier to get a mold to fillout with regular methods of casting. I did not have as good of a result when using linotype for the 32 but as I said before there are a lot of reasons why results change when doing something different which is why results don't always agree.

You will hear all modern groups claim that the harder the bullet the better it is. I believe this is primarily because Elmer Keith always bantered "You need a hard bullet". Considering what he was doing, it was probably correct because to him a hard bullet was 20 to 1 lead to tin which had a BHN of around 10 whereas most lead you found at that time was pure which is around 5 BHN so when he said hard he didn't mean bullets in the 20 BHN range.

[pistol champ]

I've tried a lot of lead bullets and this is what I've observed.

Old casters bullet cast from accurate mold:
soft alloy works best
soft lube 50/50 works best

T&B bullets:
very few good groups
most bad
bullets seem inconsistent
same bullets put in a swage = really nice consistent groups
(I have a swage press and dies to do this for sale $400.00) pm me for details

Swaged bullets shape same as Old Casters
(different swage than used for T&B bullets)

pure lead
ok groups Old Casters shape SWC
ok groups with Old Casters shape but with hollow point HPSWC
very poor groups with cup base SWC or HPSWC

alloy of mostly 22 bullets (indoor range lead)
great groups Old Casters shape SWC
great groups with Old Casters shape but with hollow point HPSWC
poor groups with cup base SWC or HPSWC

Hard alloy 92%lead 8% antimony
great groups Old Casters shape SWC
great groups with Old Casters shape but with hollow point HPSWC
great groups with cup base SWC or HPSWC
Very difficult to swage just did for testing to see how to get the cup base to work.

I'm probably not the best at casting but swaging is pretty fool proof
I have found my swaged bullets are always consistent and will hold "X" ring at 50 yd.
I usually shoot the SWC shape I like them as they are the easiest to make.
The hollow point tip is just as accurate.
I've increased my bullet weight up to 65 grains which has made my velocities more consistent.
I use my cast bullets for practicing sustained fire and the swaged bullets for everything else
matches, league, and slow fire practice

[shootaholic]

Greetings from Aus,
Firstly Merry Christmas to all and wish you success in your tinkering for ultimate accuracy. Most of you may be experiencing cold and snow but in the West of Australia it was 43 celsius yesterday.

Anyway back to the interesting stuff, in a recent post to fc60 I mentioned I have a Hammerli 280 .32 with a bulged barrel. On very close examination I noticed the barrel is in two pieces. I wasn't sure if it was pressed together or silver soldered. So I decided to bored it out till I got to the join line and then came to traces of copper coloured silver solder. The next stage was easy as I was given a 28" Shilen 32 blank. I have turned down a section to the same specs as the bulged factory barrel and should have it back running over the Xmas break.

I also decided to go with a swaged projectile as I have a Corbin S press. I ordered a copy of Old Casters 65grn SWC nose punch along with a Wadcutter nose punch as well as a hollow base and flat base punch in 314. Amazingly and full credit to Dave at Corbins, I had the die set in about 2 weeks. I'm currently waiting for the 10kg of lead wire to arrive today fingers crossed.
The beauty of swaging is I can make any weight as well as flat base or hollow base to see what shoots best. I tumble lube my swaged pills in Lee Alox so will see how that goes.

Considering Dave's experience with a 32 S&W breech face I decided to trim 32 s&w long cases back to match 32acp which was quite easy to do. I'll chamber the new barrel to suit.

I better get busy and make a Ransom insert for the 280 so I can test this new concoction. I'll post pics of the swaged pills as soon as I've made some.

Cheers from downunder
Shootaholic

[pistol champ]

Hi Shootaholic,

I have the same swage set up that you have. My finished bullet is 0.3148" when finished. I also have a nose punch that gives me a hollow point SWC. I could not get the hollow base to shoot well with soft lead wire. My theory is the bullet skirt deforms as it leaves the barrel. When I went with a harder alloy accuracy got much better. I tried all kinds of bullet weights and have settled on 65 gr.

[Christopher Miceli]

Greetings from Aus,
Firstly Merry Christmas to all and wish you success in your tinkering for ultimate accuracy. Most of you may be experiencing cold and snow but in the West of Australia it was 43 celsius yesterday.

Anyway back to the interesting stuff, in a recent post to fc60 I mentioned I have a Hammerli 280 .32 with a bulged barrel. On very close examination I noticed the barrel is in two pieces. I wasn't sure if it was pressed together or silver soldered. So I decided to bored it out till I got to the join line and then came to traces of copper coloured silver solder. The next stage was easy as I was given a 28" Shilen 32 blank. I have turned down a section to the same specs as the bulged factory barrel and should have it back running over the Xmas break.

I also decided to go with a swaged projectile as I have a Corbin S press. I ordered a copy of Old Casters 65grn SWC nose punch along with a Wadcutter nose punch as well as a hollow base and flat base punch in 314. Amazingly and full credit to Dave at Corbins, I had the die set in about 2 weeks. I'm currently waiting for the 10kg of lead wire to arrive today fingers crossed.
The beauty of swaging is I can make any weight as well as flat base or hollow base to see what shoots best. I tumble lube my swaged pills in Lee Alox so will see how that goes.

Considering Dave's experience with a 32 S&W breech face I decided to trim 32 s&w long cases back to match 32acp which was quite easy to do. I'll chamber the new barrel to suit.

I better get busy and make a Ransom insert for the 280 so I can test this new concoction. I'll post pics of the swaged pills as soon as I've made some.

Cheers from downunder
Shootaholic

David sams sells these.