Hello Everyone-
Due to a complex calculus of time and money, I have shelved my M16 for NRA highpower (the first shooting sport I had an inkling of passion for) and bought myself an Anschuetz 1411 [w/o cheek and length adjustments :(].
I've got a few questions about it that I'd hope some of the more experienced here would be able to help me with:
- can I dry fire it as is? or will i need a dry-firing pin?
- as it comes,it is VERY forward heavy. Is there any kind of counterweight system I can attach to the stock or the acessory rail to make balance where my position wants to put my left hand?
-what are people's thoughts on shooting this offhand, at least for grins and giggles? It is a prone rifle, and I can only get a comfy position if the center of balance is shifted well to the rear and the toe of the stock rests on my shoulder. Now, this is common these days with the M16, but I'd imagine this is uncommon or illegal in olympic shooting.
- any prone position tips? In highpower, the orthodoxy is, among others, to build a low prone position and cant the rifle. Is this similar in olympic shooting, or is doing this asking for trouble?
- most importantly, is there any regular series of competitions or practice within driving distance of the Northern VA area?
[BTW I don't have (what for me would be) pretensions of making the olympics - I would just like to maximize my shooting ability in this sport as much as time and $$ allow]
Many thanks for your help!
sgrom42-at-yahoo.com.41182.0
The Beginner and the 1411
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
pdeal
Re: The Beginner and the 1411
Marcus: I am no olympic shooter but I will pass on what I have found.
With my reentry into smallbore after 20 years off I also bought a 1411. My idea too was to use it as a position rifle since I could not find a used free rifle for a decent price used at the time. I will tell you it is pretty rough shooting that sucker standing because the balance is so screwed up. I shortened the stock and put a pull length adjustable butt on mine which helped but it was still very poorly balanced. Your best bet is to watch for a free rifle stock for your barreled action. The trouble here is that free rifle stocks ain't cheap and you'll probably do better to watch for a used free rifle. I finally wound up buying a used 1813.
There is a real good reference on good smallbore position shooting and it is a book called the "The Ways of the Rifle". This book has tons of good info. Centershot sports has it.
In smallbore prone people don't get quite so low because there is a requirement that your forearm maintain a 30 degree angle from the ground.
Pretty sure there is quite a lot of smallbore activity in your area. There was an article in the most recent Shooting sports USA on smallbore at a range in Manasis (sp?). Also, it looks like there are some matches at Quantico and I understand they have some matches at the NRA range. I am in Morgantown, WV and we will be having a 3p match at our club in August. I will email you a bulletin.
: Hello Everyone-
: Due to a complex calculus of time and money, I have shelved my M16 for NRA highpower (the first shooting sport I had an inkling of passion for) and bought myself an Anschuetz 1411 [w/o cheek and length adjustments :(].
: I've got a few questions about it that I'd hope some of the more experienced here would be able to help me with:
: - can I dry fire it as is? or will i need a dry-firing pin?
: - as it comes,it is VERY forward heavy. Is there any kind of counterweight system I can attach to the stock or the acessory rail to make balance where my position wants to put my left hand?
: -what are people's thoughts on shooting this offhand, at least for grins and giggles? It is a prone rifle, and I can only get a comfy position if the center of balance is shifted well to the rear and the toe of the stock rests on my shoulder. Now, this is common these days with the M16, but I'd imagine this is uncommon or illegal in olympic shooting.
: - any prone position tips? In highpower, the orthodoxy is, among others, to build a low prone position and cant the rifle. Is this similar in olympic shooting, or is doing this asking for trouble?
: - most importantly, is there any regular series of competitions or practice within driving distance of the Northern VA area?
:
: [BTW I don't have (what for me would be) pretensions of making the olympics - I would just like to maximize my shooting ability in this sport as much as time and $$ allow]
: Many thanks for your help!
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.41197.41182
With my reentry into smallbore after 20 years off I also bought a 1411. My idea too was to use it as a position rifle since I could not find a used free rifle for a decent price used at the time. I will tell you it is pretty rough shooting that sucker standing because the balance is so screwed up. I shortened the stock and put a pull length adjustable butt on mine which helped but it was still very poorly balanced. Your best bet is to watch for a free rifle stock for your barreled action. The trouble here is that free rifle stocks ain't cheap and you'll probably do better to watch for a used free rifle. I finally wound up buying a used 1813.
There is a real good reference on good smallbore position shooting and it is a book called the "The Ways of the Rifle". This book has tons of good info. Centershot sports has it.
In smallbore prone people don't get quite so low because there is a requirement that your forearm maintain a 30 degree angle from the ground.
Pretty sure there is quite a lot of smallbore activity in your area. There was an article in the most recent Shooting sports USA on smallbore at a range in Manasis (sp?). Also, it looks like there are some matches at Quantico and I understand they have some matches at the NRA range. I am in Morgantown, WV and we will be having a 3p match at our club in August. I will email you a bulletin.
: Hello Everyone-
: Due to a complex calculus of time and money, I have shelved my M16 for NRA highpower (the first shooting sport I had an inkling of passion for) and bought myself an Anschuetz 1411 [w/o cheek and length adjustments :(].
: I've got a few questions about it that I'd hope some of the more experienced here would be able to help me with:
: - can I dry fire it as is? or will i need a dry-firing pin?
: - as it comes,it is VERY forward heavy. Is there any kind of counterweight system I can attach to the stock or the acessory rail to make balance where my position wants to put my left hand?
: -what are people's thoughts on shooting this offhand, at least for grins and giggles? It is a prone rifle, and I can only get a comfy position if the center of balance is shifted well to the rear and the toe of the stock rests on my shoulder. Now, this is common these days with the M16, but I'd imagine this is uncommon or illegal in olympic shooting.
: - any prone position tips? In highpower, the orthodoxy is, among others, to build a low prone position and cant the rifle. Is this similar in olympic shooting, or is doing this asking for trouble?
: - most importantly, is there any regular series of competitions or practice within driving distance of the Northern VA area?
:
: [BTW I don't have (what for me would be) pretensions of making the olympics - I would just like to maximize my shooting ability in this sport as much as time and $$ allow]
: Many thanks for your help!
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.41197.41182
-
P. Lambertz
Re: The Beginner and the 1411
Some quick & easy ideas ...
If you take the buttplate base off, you may find a hollowed out section in the checkpiece. Fill it with a roll or two of pennies (copper is heavy), lead pellets, lead solder, etc. Not as heavy as an adjustable buttplate assembly, but simple & cheap to do. You can also make a few buttplate spacers out of metal to easily change weight - cut slots in them just like the plastic Anschutz spacer. If you take the action from the stock, there may be a spot or two that you can also fill with some weight.
For standing, get or make a palm block or palm rest. Not only will that also add a few ounces (grams, whatever!), but it will be easier to raise the sights to your eye. Make sure your buttplate is adjusted all the way down, to keep as much of as possible on your shoulder. But as long as the part that IS on your shoulder STAYS there, it's not critical that it's only a portion, and not the whole plate.
For a quick read & good overview, get 3 Position Shooting or Position Rifle Shooting (or something like that!) by Pullum & Hahnenkrat.
: Marcus: I am no olympic shooter but I will pass on what I have found.
: With my reentry into smallbore after 20 years off I also bought a 1411. My idea too was to use it as a position rifle since I could not find a used free rifle for a decent price used at the time. I will tell you it is pretty rough shooting that sucker standing because the balance is so screwed up. I shortened the stock and put a pull length adjustable butt on mine which helped but it was still very poorly balanced. Your best bet is to watch for a free rifle stock for your barreled action. The trouble here is that free rifle stocks ain't cheap and you'll probably do better to watch for a used free rifle. I finally wound up buying a used 1813.
.41205.41197
If you take the buttplate base off, you may find a hollowed out section in the checkpiece. Fill it with a roll or two of pennies (copper is heavy), lead pellets, lead solder, etc. Not as heavy as an adjustable buttplate assembly, but simple & cheap to do. You can also make a few buttplate spacers out of metal to easily change weight - cut slots in them just like the plastic Anschutz spacer. If you take the action from the stock, there may be a spot or two that you can also fill with some weight.
For standing, get or make a palm block or palm rest. Not only will that also add a few ounces (grams, whatever!), but it will be easier to raise the sights to your eye. Make sure your buttplate is adjusted all the way down, to keep as much of as possible on your shoulder. But as long as the part that IS on your shoulder STAYS there, it's not critical that it's only a portion, and not the whole plate.
For a quick read & good overview, get 3 Position Shooting or Position Rifle Shooting (or something like that!) by Pullum & Hahnenkrat.
: Marcus: I am no olympic shooter but I will pass on what I have found.
: With my reentry into smallbore after 20 years off I also bought a 1411. My idea too was to use it as a position rifle since I could not find a used free rifle for a decent price used at the time. I will tell you it is pretty rough shooting that sucker standing because the balance is so screwed up. I shortened the stock and put a pull length adjustable butt on mine which helped but it was still very poorly balanced. Your best bet is to watch for a free rifle stock for your barreled action. The trouble here is that free rifle stocks ain't cheap and you'll probably do better to watch for a used free rifle. I finally wound up buying a used 1813.
.41205.41197
-
Geoff Hornseth
Re: The Beginner and the 1411
I am one of the regular adult shooters who competes in the N. Va.-Md.-Pa. smallbore circuit. There are plenty of competitions, indoor and outdoor, to keep you off the streets once you get plugged in to the local scene.
First off, you should be a subscriber to the monthly NRA competition newsletter "Shooting sports USA" which costs all of $5 per year for classified competitive shooters. It has a list of all NRA sanctioned smallbore matches in the country every month. That is where you begin. Once you attend a few matches and swap email addresses it is pretty easy to keep in touch with what is going on.
Check the Acorns Junior Rifle Clug web site for a few goings-on (mostly junior oriented, but closely related). Some of the active adults are associated with that junior club (as coaches). The VJSS also has a web page with latest match results, somewhere on tripod.com but I have temporarily lost the link.
With respect to the 1411. Good rifle, but needs some updating, most noteably an adjustable cheek (cardboard and tape will do in a pinch), better buttplate, and probably a bloop tube. Is the trigger about 3 ounces? Should be. If not, it is new trigger time.
With respect to shooting 3-P with it, try not to. At least not for long. You really need a proper rifle (free or sport rifle). Otherwise you run the risk of just learning a bunch of bad habits. If you could snag a free rifle stock you could do an easy switch, but probably better to get a whole rifle.
You might try calling Walter's Gun Chamber in Parkville (North Baltimore) and see if they have one. That is the only place in the area that frequently has smallbore match rifles. Nobody else wants to touch the stuff. You are probably better off putting the word out to EVERYBODY you know that you are looking for a smallbore free rifle. Never know where one may turn up. I did that for the ones my daughter and I shoot. Took about 6 months each time. Avoid gun show rifles.
Hope that helps.
.41219.41182
First off, you should be a subscriber to the monthly NRA competition newsletter "Shooting sports USA" which costs all of $5 per year for classified competitive shooters. It has a list of all NRA sanctioned smallbore matches in the country every month. That is where you begin. Once you attend a few matches and swap email addresses it is pretty easy to keep in touch with what is going on.
Check the Acorns Junior Rifle Clug web site for a few goings-on (mostly junior oriented, but closely related). Some of the active adults are associated with that junior club (as coaches). The VJSS also has a web page with latest match results, somewhere on tripod.com but I have temporarily lost the link.
With respect to the 1411. Good rifle, but needs some updating, most noteably an adjustable cheek (cardboard and tape will do in a pinch), better buttplate, and probably a bloop tube. Is the trigger about 3 ounces? Should be. If not, it is new trigger time.
With respect to shooting 3-P with it, try not to. At least not for long. You really need a proper rifle (free or sport rifle). Otherwise you run the risk of just learning a bunch of bad habits. If you could snag a free rifle stock you could do an easy switch, but probably better to get a whole rifle.
You might try calling Walter's Gun Chamber in Parkville (North Baltimore) and see if they have one. That is the only place in the area that frequently has smallbore match rifles. Nobody else wants to touch the stuff. You are probably better off putting the word out to EVERYBODY you know that you are looking for a smallbore free rifle. Never know where one may turn up. I did that for the ones my daughter and I shoot. Took about 6 months each time. Avoid gun show rifles.
Hope that helps.
.41219.41182
-
Geoff Hornseth
P.S.
Forgot to mention that you can dry fire an Anschutz 54 for the rest of your life with no problem. I do it during a match and for training at home. Have dry fired mine well over 10,000 times in the last couple years, no problem ( I use an electronic trainer at home). The "dry fire" firing pins are just a sales gimmick.
The reason you can withstand the extreme front heavy weight balance with a free rifle is because you use the hooked butt plate. That makes it possible. A prone gun does not have one (not needed) and is fairly hopeless for standing as a result.
If you are an average height adult or of slight build, seriously consider a women's "sport" rifle instead of the full weight free rifle for 3-P. A lot of adult men are switching to the slightly lighter women's rifle and getting better results. I tried my daughter's and had some improvement in offhand scores.
.41220.41182
The reason you can withstand the extreme front heavy weight balance with a free rifle is because you use the hooked butt plate. That makes it possible. A prone gun does not have one (not needed) and is fairly hopeless for standing as a result.
If you are an average height adult or of slight build, seriously consider a women's "sport" rifle instead of the full weight free rifle for 3-P. A lot of adult men are switching to the slightly lighter women's rifle and getting better results. I tried my daughter's and had some improvement in offhand scores.
.41220.41182
-
Marcus Sgro
Thanks for the info!
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will think about this
No space in the stock, but I've been always been wanting to get a drill..... [evil grin]
Actually, I've been trying to build positions by dry-firing with it in the prone position and really it's not too bad. But I really don't know about trying it kneeling. I'll get a free rifle, I think, sometime later.
Anyway, thanks for the info and thanks for the invite PDeal!
sgrom42-at-yahoo.com.41348.41220
No space in the stock, but I've been always been wanting to get a drill..... [evil grin]
Actually, I've been trying to build positions by dry-firing with it in the prone position and really it's not too bad. But I really don't know about trying it kneeling. I'll get a free rifle, I think, sometime later.
Anyway, thanks for the info and thanks for the invite PDeal!
sgrom42-at-yahoo.com.41348.41220