Standard Pistol CoF questions

[j-team]

Phil Adams shot 585 in New Zealand (Nationals) 1989. Shame that didn't count as Australian record!

Unbelievable !

Surely a score shot at a National Championship would be given International recognition by the ISSF.

No ISSF records can be set at any countries National Champs. Must be an ISSF sanctioned event.

[j-team]

do not assume that all National Championships are as big, or as well run as our (AUS) competition.

Ahem... Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but Aus run comps can be just as poorly run as anyone else's. I've been to a few!

[morten]

Norwegian Shooter Paal Hembre shot 586p SP in 1993 in a national event

http://www.fsu.no/skyttere/paalh.html

And tied the 584p WR in 2013

http://www.fsu.no/issf/2013/at/nsf_at_std.htm

[jenrick]

All right so went and shot the match yesterday. First off, it was a blast. Secondly, man I shot poorly. In practice (which I had been doing since last Tuesday), I was shooting on average about 450. I was dropping most of my points in practice trying to figure out how to shoot the 20 second string. I still hand't figured that out, but wasn't too worried. I was just a guest shooter at a collegiate match, so it's not like my scores were even reported or recorded.

The range was a 50' range, and I am lucky enough to have access to a 50m range. I had been practicing at full distance and target size, but I figured there wouldn't be much of a difference. I might have to make a slight sight adjustment, but other then that it ought to be okay. Loaded up my S&W 622 and got ready to shoot the sighting string. Well my sighting string was ugly. A shotgun would have produced a tighter group. Hmm pre-match jitters? Too much caffeine that morning? Who knows, lets just shoot and see what happens.

My targets are attached below, I inputted them into targetscan, the match hand scored them on paper.

Slow fire was bad, but with how my sighting target looked it was better then I expected. In full distance practice I was shooting this right around 160-170, with almost everything in the black. Yesterday, the vertical stringing was killing me (also dropping shots into the 2 ring doesn't help either).

I hoped to moderately redeem myself in timed fire. Ha! I think I hit every error you can have in marksmanship besides crossfiring. Well I knew this stage would be my worst one most likely, so I wasn't as surprised as I might have been.

I had actually had some pretty good success with rapid fire (a few 48-49 5 shot strings, and about the same average as slow fire) in practice, so I had hope. Apparently everything I have ever learned about shooting properly deserted me, as those stings were just horrendous.

I'm quiet looking forward to getting to the range Monday, and shooting some full distance practice to see what happens. Did I just have an off day due to match jitters? Did shooting at reduced ranges and targets mess me up somehow (no clue why)? It'll be interesting to find out. Regardless I had a lot of fun, and met some extremely gifted collegiate shooters, so it was a good day.

-Jenrick

[deadeyedick]

Are we talking about the same Match...Standard Pistol ?

My experience is that the match is shot at 25metres (82 feet ) with sighters only in the 150 second series.

Firstly the 150 second series is shot in four groups of 5 shots each with scoring and patching after each 5 shots.

The 20 second series has no sighters and is shot with the arm at 45 degrees, also shot in four groups of 5 shots with scoring and patching after each 5 shots.

Finally the 10 second series is shot as with the 20 second series.

I understand that electronic scoring would alter this slightly, however jenrick appears to have shot the match at 50 feet with sighters in all three series and in groups of 10 shots.

I must have misunderstood something here, could someone please explain.

[jenrick]

No you've got it right. The presentation of the scanned targets is just throwing you off a bit. On each image, the upper right hand target (in black and white) is the aggregate of the two other (beige) targets. It shows all the shots off the other two targets. Each of the beige targets is 10 shots for record, which is what we fired on the paper targets. So each image shows two records bulls (each with 10 shots for record), totaling 20 shots for record. It also additionally has one bull (in black and white) that shows the aggregate for all shots fired for that stage (rapid, time, and slow fire). I didn't bother to scan the sighter target.

Due to the range constraints, it's only 50 feet long, the match was shot at reduced distance with reduced sized targets, scaled for the distance. The only difference from how you described the match, is that we fired 10 rounds for record on each target rather then 5. I'm assuming that may be a difference with NCAA rules versus ISSF rules. The images of the targets posted in reverse order, but we did shoot them in the order you listed (150 seconds, 20 seconds, 10 seconds).

Sorry if that came off confusing.

-Jenrick

[shaky hands]

I think I hit every error you can have in marksmanship besides crossfiring.

The word "mistake" is probably one of the most abused in marksmanship. Do you really think you made "mistakes"? If you miss a free throw in a Sunday basketball game, did you just make a mistake? What I see from the targets is that you shot within your physical ability when under the influence of adrenaline, the notorious fine motor skill killer. As you practice more, your scores will improve, but your match scores could likely be lower than your practice scores, at least for a while. As a practical advice from an old-fashioned school of thought from a no longer existing country which always valued hard training over the "fun" side of things, stop shooting 10s series completely, for a few months at least, and spend more time on the 20s series. As Skanaker put it in his book, treat it as a precision shooting without lowering your arm. Too little time for dawdling, but long enough to aim each shot carefully. 20s training is the best training for Standard pistol for where you are now.

[jmdavis]

Now what is it that combines slow fire precision with 20 second and 10 second 5 shot sustained fire strings?

Shoot as many 50' and 25 yard reduced bullseye matches as you can. Find a league and shoot their matches, while continuing your standard pistol practice. The way that you overcome match jitters is to shoot matches alot of matches and in every one you will have at least 2 strings of 20 second sustained fire and 10 second sustained fire. If you are lucky you will be shooting 900's where you will have 6 strings of 20 second and 6 of 10 second on the B3 or B8 target along with 30 shots of precision on the B2 or B16 target.

We have basically zero international competitive shooting opportunities within 100 miles of my house. But I can shoot 6 indoor bullseye matches per month within a 70 mile radius. During the summer I have to travel farther but I can 2 or 3 2700's (which may be shot using Rule 22 with the .22lr within 110 miles).

[jenrick]

shaky hands: Good advice all the way around, and a good way to look at it.

jmdavis: I'm lucky enough that there's a place about an hour away that shoots full distances 2700's every month. I already shot some emails to get the dates for the next match.

So here's my practice targets from today. I wanted to do some shooting today to see how I shoot back on my how range at full distance. 15 shots per record for each bull, in 3 strings of 5. Why 15 and not 20 shots you ask? I only had a box of 50 with me today and wanted to shoot all three series. The black and white bull is the aggregate of all 45 shots for records. Bulls are in normal order with #1 being 150 seconds, #2 20 seconds, and #3 10 seconds. #1 is low, because I forgot to change my sights back to the their full distance setting. For whatever reason bull #1 and #2 each featured a 4 point shot at approximately 3:30 that the scanner would just not pickup, so all rounds fired are on paper regardless of what the scanner wanted to say.

My new to me FAS 602 should arrive this week, so I'm going to hold off on practicing standard pistol live fire until after it gets here. I can certainly stand to do some dry work.

-Jenrick

[ghillieman]

Jenrick, if you liked the standard pistol match you will have a blast shooting a bullseye 2700 at full distance.