Age degradation of skills. How much of a decline have you seen in your score averages as you pass thru you 50's and 60's. I have entered the 60's and it seems I have to work even harder to achieve lesser results. I have kept up my upper body strength in an effort to stave off the effects of age, to little avail. My corrected vision is reasonably good, it just seems harder to put it all together. I am curious as to others experiences as it relates to age.
Gort
Age degradation of skills
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Re: Age degradation of skills
I've noticed about 15% in air rifle, BUT much of that is due to no longer using a shooting jacket. Vision is becoming more problematic, and will eventually need cataracts removed.
Air pistol has increase 30% or so the last four years, BUT that was when I first began pistol shooting.
I think you need to make sure your "Core" is up to shooting (not "upper body) for both disciplines. It's your core and legs that hold you up, and stamina is more important than strength (lower weights with higher reps when exercising).
Air pistol has increase 30% or so the last four years, BUT that was when I first began pistol shooting.
I think you need to make sure your "Core" is up to shooting (not "upper body) for both disciplines. It's your core and legs that hold you up, and stamina is more important than strength (lower weights with higher reps when exercising).
Re: Age degradation of skills
I can tell you that I reached 84 and soon 85, and the degradation began slowly at 83 and has been running at Olympian speeds since then. The loss of muscle is most noticeable as I have difficulty in lifting my Pardini and getting any kind of sight hold. The trigger finger isn't a problem in that I can get off a good shot, but the sight hold really is beginning to stink .....real bad!!!!!!! I haven't called it quits as of yet with the .22, however my .38 and .45 shooting have deteriorated with the Timed and Rapid fire stages. Air pistol is still with fairly good scores but Free Pistol had already become a thing of the past. So I am guessing it won't be too much longer when I will succumb and hang up the rest of my target equipment and retire to the side lines.......Oh well enjoying old age and all of it's benefits and the number of increasing doctor's visits for various and sundry Tests!!!!!!!........."Doc"
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ShootingSight
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Re: Age degradation of skills
I think there are two aspects to old shooters:
1. Stuff you can fix.
2. Stuff you cannot.
Stuff you can fix typically includes vision. Yes, there are macular degeneration, glaucoma, cateracts, etc that need real medical intervention and cannot always be reversed. However the big one is presbiopia, and the inability to focus where you need in order to shoot. This can be fixed, but I have seen a LOT of shooters walk away from the sport because they did not know how easy it was to correct .... with the right math.
THere is an ideal focal point for shooting, at the hyperfocal distance of the sight. Focusing at this point will centralize your natural depth of field between the target and the sight. When you were young, your eye muscle could just exert to do this without even thinking about it. In old age, you lose that adjustment range, and often don't realize it, or at least don't understand the lens math so you can select what would restore your shooting vision to where it needs to be. There are a lot of people whose vision has degenerated, where a single corrective lens OF THE RIGHT POWER would put you back in the game, but the understanding of how to calculate that power value is elusive.
1. Stuff you can fix.
2. Stuff you cannot.
Stuff you can fix typically includes vision. Yes, there are macular degeneration, glaucoma, cateracts, etc that need real medical intervention and cannot always be reversed. However the big one is presbiopia, and the inability to focus where you need in order to shoot. This can be fixed, but I have seen a LOT of shooters walk away from the sport because they did not know how easy it was to correct .... with the right math.
THere is an ideal focal point for shooting, at the hyperfocal distance of the sight. Focusing at this point will centralize your natural depth of field between the target and the sight. When you were young, your eye muscle could just exert to do this without even thinking about it. In old age, you lose that adjustment range, and often don't realize it, or at least don't understand the lens math so you can select what would restore your shooting vision to where it needs to be. There are a lot of people whose vision has degenerated, where a single corrective lens OF THE RIGHT POWER would put you back in the game, but the understanding of how to calculate that power value is elusive.
Re: Age degradation of skills
Not really, particularly for ISSF Pistol.ShootingSight wrote:...but the understanding of how to calculate that power value is elusive.
Sigh!
Re: Age degradation of skills
Bob Riegl, please give me a call here at the office
thanks
scott
nine three one 924 3400
thanks
scott
nine three one 924 3400
Re: Age degradation of skills
Just a thought. Ragnar Skanaker won either a world cup in his country a few years back when he decided to come back and have a shoot and he would have been into his 80s at the time
Re: Age degradation of skills
Ragnar Skanaker is a special case and a special person, however I was inquiring about us mere mortals. I doubt it is in the cards for most of us in the 60's, 70's and beyond to be as competitive as we one were, no mater how rigorously we train. I was talking to an Orthopedic Surgeon yesterday about this topic and he told me that after one hits 35 we lose about 10 percent strength and stamina per decade. Fitness may determine a starting point, but the rate of decline is somewhat inevitable. I am hoping to find some morsels of wisdom and technique to stave off the march of time.
Gort
Gort
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David Levene
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Re: Age degradation of skills
Certainly not a World Cup. The last time he won one of those was in 1993.Muffo wrote:Just a thought. Ragnar Skanaker won either a world cup in his country a few years back when he decided to come back and have a shoot and he would have been into his 80s at the time
He did shoot the World Cup circuit in 2004, when he was a youngster of 70, his highest placing being a very creditable 8th.
As Gort suggested however, Ragnar simply isn't human ;-)
Re: Age degradation of skills
Some of us old timers have had to go to scope and the prone position, where we can still be competitive at the club level. Shot my first 1600 prone well into my 70's and I don't follow any rigorous exercise schedule. Find something you can do well and it'll let you still enjoy shooting. I figure BR will be my last stop when I get really feeble (or maybe take up golf!).
Re: Age degradation of skills
It's all SO degrading!!!
Re: Age degradation of skills
Growing old is not for the faint of heart...
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David Levene
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Re: Age degradation of skills
...... but it's better than the alternative.left360 wrote:Growing old is not for the faint of heart...
Re: Age degradation of skills
It was since after i started shooting. Which was in 2009. I think maybe in 2010 or 2011. He shot either a world cup or nationals in sweden. From memory there werent any other really good shooters there but he won with something around 882 qualifying. He did an interview after the match and was asked if he was going to return to shooting where he responded that he didnt think so because he didnt want to start trainingDavid Levene wrote:Certainly not a World Cup. The last time he won one of those was in 1993.Muffo wrote:Just a thought. Ragnar Skanaker won either a world cup in his country a few years back when he decided to come back and have a shoot and he would have been into his 80s at the time
He did shoot the World Cup circuit in 2004, when he was a youngster of 70, his highest placing being a very creditable 8th.
As Gort suggested however, Ragnar simply isn't human ;-)
Re: Age degradation of skills
It was not a World Cup; there have been no World Cups in Sweden since before 2009.
The locations in 2009 were Changwon (Korea), Beijing, Munich, and Milan. The Final was Wuxi in China. 2010 saw Sydney, Beijing, Fort Benning, Belgrade, and a final in Munich. 2011 saw Sydney, Changwon, Fort Benning, and Munich, with a final in Wroclaw Poland. 2012 saw London, Milan, and Munich (standing in for Delhi); Beijing was cancelled, and the final was in Bangkok. 2013 saw Chnagwon, Fort Benning, Munich, and Granada, with a final in Munich. 2014 was Fort Benning, Munich, Maribor, and Beijin; the final was held at Gabala. This year's events were held in Changwon, Fort Benning, Munich, Gabala, and back to Munich for the final.
The locations in 2009 were Changwon (Korea), Beijing, Munich, and Milan. The Final was Wuxi in China. 2010 saw Sydney, Beijing, Fort Benning, Belgrade, and a final in Munich. 2011 saw Sydney, Changwon, Fort Benning, and Munich, with a final in Wroclaw Poland. 2012 saw London, Milan, and Munich (standing in for Delhi); Beijing was cancelled, and the final was in Bangkok. 2013 saw Chnagwon, Fort Benning, Munich, and Granada, with a final in Munich. 2014 was Fort Benning, Munich, Maribor, and Beijin; the final was held at Gabala. This year's events were held in Changwon, Fort Benning, Munich, Gabala, and back to Munich for the final.
Re: Age degradation of skills
congradulations you are correct. It was a swedish national champion ship in 2008. He shot 580 98.1 at age 73Tim S wrote:It was not a World Cup; there have been no World Cups in Sweden since before 2009.
The locations in 2009 were Changwon (Korea), Beijing, Munich, and Milan. The Final was Wuxi in China. 2010 saw Sydney, Beijing, Fort Benning, Belgrade, and a final in Munich. 2011 saw Sydney, Changwon, Fort Benning, and Munich, with a final in Wroclaw Poland. 2012 saw London, Milan, and Munich (standing in for Delhi); Beijing was cancelled, and the final was in Bangkok. 2013 saw Chnagwon, Fort Benning, Munich, and Granada, with a final in Munich. 2014 was Fort Benning, Munich, Maribor, and Beijin; the final was held at Gabala. This year's events were held in Changwon, Fort Benning, Munich, Gabala, and back to Munich for the final.
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ShootingSight
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Re: Age degradation of skills
You misunderstood my point. The science of the optics is well understood, and I can explain exactly how to calculate it, so it is not 'elusive' in the sense that the answer is not known to mankind.Spencer wrote:Not really, particularly for ISSF Pistol.ShootingSight wrote:...but the understanding of how to calculate that power value is elusive.
Sigh!
I used the word 'elusive' to describe that many shooters, and indeed many eye doctors do not know how to do the calculation, so a lot of older shooters struggle with vision for want of asking the question of the right person. Sometimes they try things and stumble on a workable solution, sometimes they talk to people who actually do not know what they are talking about, and leave the sport, frustrated at not being able to find the right solution.
At the end of the day, you need to use a positive diopter lens, or add to your distance vision prescription if you want to shoot iron sights. The value of that lens/add is driven by the hyperfocal length of your sights, and for the vast majority of pistol shooters will calculate to be a +0.75 diopter. If you have really short arms you might need as much as a +1.00, if you have a really long sight radius you might opt for a +0.50. If your eyes have a slight undiagnosed vision correction need, that can also push the value up or down slightly, however I would estimate that over 90% of pistol shooters I have sold lenses to have selected the +0.75 as their best option.
Re: Age degradation of skills
I believe that you need a focal length sightly longer than the sight radius, about 1m
in front of your sights so that the eye will focus from infinity back to the foresight.
This is important for quick sight alignment in the faster type shooting, rapid etc.
+0.75 to your distance script is the starting point for your own sight experiments.
I find that down to +0.5 is better for 10m and up to 1.0 better for 50m.
Also you need to play with tints to control light levels both indoors and outdoors.
Bright sunshine can play hell with your vision, one thing for International shooters
is the UV level, the southern hemisphere has a lot higher UV than the northern
hemisphere.
This is where tints come into the picture.
Eyes are only one problem with age..
add shoulder, elbow, wrist, fingers, knees and memory...
in front of your sights so that the eye will focus from infinity back to the foresight.
This is important for quick sight alignment in the faster type shooting, rapid etc.
+0.75 to your distance script is the starting point for your own sight experiments.
I find that down to +0.5 is better for 10m and up to 1.0 better for 50m.
Also you need to play with tints to control light levels both indoors and outdoors.
Bright sunshine can play hell with your vision, one thing for International shooters
is the UV level, the southern hemisphere has a lot higher UV than the northern
hemisphere.
This is where tints come into the picture.
Eyes are only one problem with age..
add shoulder, elbow, wrist, fingers, knees and memory...
Last edited by David M on Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Age degradation of skills
David M,
For me, I find to focus intently on my sight alignment, my shooting prescription's focal length is about an inch behind the front sight. This gives me the sharpest sight alignment image possible. I can not see the bullseye well, nor do I want to. As far as tints, almost all the World Cup shooters in 50m use no tints, even outdoors. This year at Benning only one shooter in the finals had a tint, and the sun could not of been brighter. At my age I have the beginning of cataracts, so bright sun is becoming a problem. I have been using an iris in the bright sun, but a tint may be better.
Gort
For me, I find to focus intently on my sight alignment, my shooting prescription's focal length is about an inch behind the front sight. This gives me the sharpest sight alignment image possible. I can not see the bullseye well, nor do I want to. As far as tints, almost all the World Cup shooters in 50m use no tints, even outdoors. This year at Benning only one shooter in the finals had a tint, and the sun could not of been brighter. At my age I have the beginning of cataracts, so bright sun is becoming a problem. I have been using an iris in the bright sun, but a tint may be better.
Gort
Re: Age degradation of skills
My most used tint is a 10% grey, it kills the glare and reduces both eye
strain and headaches for 5 match weekends.
strain and headaches for 5 match weekends.