Ssp or pcp

[Wpvince]

Hey guys just got into the sport and am on the fence about equipment. I shoot both a fas 6004 and a Izh 46. The 6004 trigger is too heavy and I cannot lighten it more unless I take it to s gunsmith. The izh seems too top/ front heavy. Although I do love both guns I feel like I'm missing out on the newest best equipment. I really want to buy a new fwb p44 short, but I'm on the fence about the whole charging deal. The hand pump sounds like a pain in the ass and the scuba tank Is just another thing to have laying around. Please help. Thanks in advance. Wyatt

[deadeyedick]

The scuba tank won't be lying around any more than a reloading press for Centrefire would. The convenience of a scuba tank is immense and well worth the investment.

[Leon]

Hey guys just got into the sport and am on the fence about equipment. I shoot both a fas 6004 and a Izh 46. The 6004 trigger is too heavy and I cannot lighten it more unless I take it to s gunsmith. The izh seems too top/ front heavy. Although I do love both guns I feel like I'm missing out on the newest best equipment. I really want to buy a new fwb p44 short, but I'm on the fence about the whole charging deal. The hand pump sounds like a pain in the ass and the scuba tank Is just another thing to have laying around. Please help. Thanks in advance. Wyatt

You can lighten the trigger of a FAS/Chiappa 6004.

Not just trigger #1 will lighten the weight. Adjust 3# and #4 as well..

[SamEEE]

Scuba air is dry and clean which is a big tick in my books.

Saves on corrosion and wear to parts such as regulator etc.

My bias: I started with Compressed Air.

SSP is okay, but loading them I bet is a big muck around when you are looking for repeatable results.

P44 isn't a bad gun, nicely made. Bit lightweight in construction, but should be fine so long as you're not rappelling through windows with it.

I suspect Rover will be along shortly...

[rmca]

I really want to buy a new fwb p44 short, but I'm on the fence about the whole charging deal.

Wyatt

The charging of the cylinders is not a big deal. Quite simple anyway you choose to charge.

If you choose the pump, it's not hard to recharge. Only the last few pumps (as you reach 200 bar) require a bit more force, but nothing major.
Use your upper body weight and gravity to help you pump, by leaning over the pump and keeping your arms stretched.

The cylinder is quite easier, you just screw in the cylinder, open the valve, close the valve (or else...), and unscrew the cylinder.
One tank will give you a lot of refills per charge. A scuba shop, fire department, etc, can easily refill your tank.
You may have to periodically recertify your tank according to local law.

When I bought my LP10 I faced the same question and went with the pump, as I didn't like the idea of having a couple of litres of air compressed at 200 bar near me.
Now I'm considering a tank, although I will not get rid of the pump.

So, my advice is get both if you can. You fill the cylinder first with the tank, and then, as pressure decreases in the tank, you top the cylinder off with the pump.
If you have to choose between the two, and since you are new to pcp, I would recommend the pump first.

Hope this helps

Rover is taking a lot of time with this one... I'm itching with anticipation! ;)

[paw080]

Hey guys just got into the sport and am on the fence about equipment. I shoot both a fas 6004 and a Izh 46. The 6004 trigger is too heavy and I cannot lighten it more unless I take it to s gunsmith. The izh seems too top/ front heavy. Although I do love both guns I feel like I'm missing out on the newest best equipment. I really want to buy a new fwb p44 short, but I'm on the fence about the whole charging deal. The hand pump sounds like a pain in the ass and the scuba tank Is just another thing to have laying around. Please help. Thanks in advance. Wyatt

Hi WP, Your Fas 2004 trigger is adjustable to BELOW the 500g limit; you do know that 10M air pistol rules require a minimum of 500g trigger pull don't you?
I'm guessing that you've adjusted your trigger to below that threshold. I'll also guess that your Izzy's trigger is adjusted below the 500g limit also.

If I'm wrong, well, I apologize for the implication. your pistols just have to lift a 500g weight without the sear releasing. Most of the competitors adjust their
triggers to hold several ounces over the limit, in order to safely pass the tech. I think your pistols can take you quite a ways, before you need to upgrade.
Best of luck;

Tony

[v76]

Short response: you're not missing out on anything.

Longer response: With the market as it is (D>O) for vintage SSPs, people are asking stupid prices for them. If you wanna go with something new, you don't have much choice. Lightening the 46M's front end is possible but it is quite a long technical undertaking (search on here). PCPs guns are very, very nice and comfortable but you'll probably shoot the same scores with them. I did shoot marginally better with a PCP but I'd attribute a lot of that to my healing tendonitis from shooting the 46M...
As said, you'll still need a pump with a tank so I'd just get that and be done with it. Buy used if you can, lots of mint PCPs in the BST subforum from people that got momentarily into the sport.

[Rover]

Aww, this isn't fun any more. I have half of you guys convinced I know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I have long promoted the SSPs for many reasons, but the biggie is the lack of hassle (read $$$ for extras).

Quick and dirty, take two tins of pellets and a piece of bent coat hanger + some tape. If your gun shoots with this hanging from the trigger, it's too light.

If your guns aren't classy enough for you, snoop around for a Pardini K58. You'll get the most for the least money.

If all this is not satisfactory, there is a third choice.....CO2. Check it out.

[conradin]

I would say listen to Rover IF you are not sure whether you are going to get into this sport for life. In that case follow Rover's advice and buy the cheapest second hand SSP. Rover likes CO2, but that is just like PCP that requires refill from a tank. I will suggest you go for PCP if you think you will devote yourself to the sport for a longer time period. This means participation in local tournaments. If you plan to stay in the sport for life, then get the most popular and the best model, such as Steyr LP10, Morini 162ei, or MG1H. If you are not sure, then stick with older models, such as Pardini 2 (CO2), Walther 300XT LP, Steyr LP1CP (Co2). Key is resale value. Be warn that the Co2 route the resale value can be a problem, as the further away from the Co2 era, the harder it is to keep the price up. The best way to check how well the market value of a Co2 pistol is to follow egun. Meanwhile, Benelli Kite seems to be the best "in between", if you are not sure whether you will be competing for just a few years or do it for life.
Be very weary that not all models or even types will fit you. It is entirely possible that not a single SSP (IZH or FWB) will fit you. This has more to do with the lack of high quality SSP that is still in production. For PCP/Co2, try as many as you can since you are likely to stick with this pistol for a few years. Just because a Steyr LP10E is winning all the time, does not mean it will fit you. For example it is rather top heavy. If I were you who wants to seriously invest in a PCP, look at the women's competition as most models are represented by the top athletes. Steyr..Morini..Pardini..Matchguns..Walther..FWB.
Finally, outside a little bit of your question, do consider SP if SSP is not an option. I highly recommend FWB90 if you can find it. Great resale value too.

The one key advice I give that is different from most is that I do stress about resale value. Not everyone would want to be around the sport for a few years, some may give up after one tournament. Some may not enter a tournament for years yet shoot at clubs week after week for decades. This is why you see teenage kid has a brand new Walter LP400 Alu shooting next to an older gentleman using a FWB65.

[Gwhite]

One problem for most CO2 pistols is that you can't get new cylinders. That means you CAN NOT compete above the informal club level. As soon as you move up to competitions where they enforce the 10 year cylinder rule, almost all CO2 pistols are out, if not now, then in only a few years.

However, you can still learn a lot shooting a used CO2 pistol. One approach would be to see if you can get a used Steyr CO2 pistol. A used LP1 can be bought for ~ $600 to $650 if you are patient. If you want to move up to competitions where they check cylinder age, you can get a PCP conversion kit with new cylinders. The conversion is ~ $400 with two cylinders. That way you can keep the grip, sights & trigger you've gotten used to and only have to deal with a slight change in weight distribution from the different cylinder & mount.

[conradin]

CO2 cylinders are still available brand new, you just have to order directly from the factory. Walther, for example continues to supply cylinders. However, they no longer produce Co2 pistols.

[Rover]

See what I mean about hassle ($$$). Keep looking for a SSP K58 or one of the FWB 100 series.

Although I DO think very few readers here will be concerned about the heavily policed matches.

[bam86]

I have to agree with Rover. Don't discount the idea of going to CO2. I used to shoot an IZH and found it top/front heavy. Fortunately someone contacted me about wanting to get rid of an air pistol. It was a FWB Mod 2. Wow, what a deal. They even included the CO2 tank. I haven't regretted the decision to purchase it. I didn't see the dramatic increase in scores, but psychologically it helped. It is much lighter and fits my hand a lot better. I also don't get muscle weary as fast since the weight is so much better ditributed. Overall I probably saw about a 5 point increase per target. I had always wanted a compressed air pistol, but gee even the used ones here are at least $1,000. Way to much for a "BB gun" as the wife likes to call them. Seems like CO2 is an in between step, typically selling on here between $600 to $1,000.

To Summarize:

1. Don't discount CO2 as an option.
2. The gun is a lot cheaper than a Compressed air model.
3. They all will hold a better group than most shooters can hold. (even the IZH).

Enjoy shooting.

[Wpvince]

Wow thanks a lot guys. A lot to consider. I guess I'll just stick with what I have now. I do realize the triggers are supposed to be above 500 grams, however, I start shaking a bit when the trigger is that heavy. I'm gonna try the 2 pellet cases and the hanger idea to see where my trigger is at. The FAS is really heavy so I guess that may be above 500. I've always liked a very light trigger. My problem seems to be that the FAS trigger seems heavy and like everyone else says the IZH is front/top heavy. I grew up shooting my fathers fwb 65 and the trigger is feather light. I always want to get the best equipment and the fwb p44 just looks awesome. I'm just reluctant with the tank thing. Thanks for all the inpit I appreciate it. Wyatt