"load"

[conradin]

What does "load" mean when the official says so to the competitor? Does it mean loading the rounds inside the magazine and then put the magazine in? Or does it mean the competitor has already have the magazine loaded, then when the command is given, one simply put the magazine into the pistol?
Obviously this is concerning to the semi-automatic, not the revolver.

[David M]

8.7.6.2 Specific Rules for 25m Events

c) “LOAD.” In all 25m Training or Qualification events, only
one (1) magazine or pistol may be loaded with not more than
five (5) cartridges on the command “LOAD.” Nothing else is
allowed to be inserted into the magazine or cylinder;

[conradin]

8.7.6.2 Specific Rules for 25m Events

c) “LOAD.” In all 25m Training or Qualification events, only
one (1) magazine or pistol may be loaded with not more than
five (5) cartridges on the command “LOAD.” Nothing else is
allowed to be inserted into the magazine or cylinder;

I still do not get it. Do you mean when the command is given, you must put the round into the magazine..ie, before "load" the magazine has to be empty?

[David Levene]

8.7.6.2 Specific Rules for 25m Events

c) “LOAD.” In all 25m Training or Qualification events, only
one (1) magazine or pistol may be loaded with not more than
five (5) cartridges on the command “LOAD.” Nothing else is
allowed to be inserted into the magazine or cylinder;

I still do not get it. Do you mean when the command is given, you must put the round into the magazine..ie, before "load" the magazine has to be empty?

Yes, 6.2.3.2

[scausi]

_________________
Vince Lucian-Magdalaine C. E. Ho-Bridgman
Winzeler 102 NSH LI EL - Morini CM84E - Steyr LP10E - Anschütz 8100 Club - Pardini SP
NRA Certified Instructor#194102733
CRPA #321307 - USA Shooting# 1033130

How can you be an NRA instructor ,
CPRA ?
USA Shooting ?
and not what the load command means are you for real.
or does NRA - stand for -- Not Really Anything

[David M]

Mag's pre loaded...?
ISSF match...no
Service/Action match...yes
WA1500...yes
Bullseye match...yes

[dronning]

_________________
How can you be an NRA instructor ,
CPRA ?
USA Shooting ?
and not what the load command means are you for real.
or does NRA - stand for -- Not Really Anything

Not much help or value in your response.

One question though, why is an NRA Safety Instructor suppose to know what the different sanctioning organization load command means? They teach basic firearm safety. One of the things they teach is it's your responsibility to understand the rules of the range (or competition) you are shooting at. Looks like all you were trying to do was slam the NRA.

Based on David M's actual response to the question, the ISSF would frown on the 18 preloaded mags I bring to a bullseye match, something I did not know, Thanks for that.

- Dave

[Hemmers]

How can you be an NRA instructor ,
CPRA ?
USA Shooting ?
and not what the load command means are you for real.
or does NRA - stand for -- Not Really Anything

Harsh.
The ISSF is... different. It is not surprising that people from other disciplines and areas of shooting are not fully conversant - that's why they ask questions. Because there is no such thing as a stupid question. Would you rather he not have asked it and gone and guessed at a competition?

In most forms of shooting, "Load" would be taken to insert the magazine.
In cadets, the military drill defined "Load" as fitting the magazine, and when instructed to "Make Ready", you would cock the rifle and chamber a round. However, with a single shot rifle, being told to "load" would typically mean skipping that bit and physically chambering a round, because there is nothing else to do - no magazine to insert.

So if someone tells you to "Load", it could mean any of three things:
- Fill your magazine
- Fit the magazine to the firearm but do not chamber a round
- Chamber a round.

In some doctrines, I'm sure it means fit the magazine and chamber a round.

Definitely not a silly question to ask if you're new to the discipline!
Far worse is for someone to waltz in "I've been shooting for years, I know what I'm doing".

You may, you may even be safe. But if your drills don't match up with the ones mandated in the local range orders (which always take precedence) or the competition rule book, then you'll find yourself being summarily escorted off the range or disqualified in short order!

[rmca]

I still do not get it. Do you mean when the command is given, you must put the round into the magazine..ie, before "load" the magazine has to be empty?

Before a string of five shoots, you have to have your gun unloaded, with the slide opened, and a safety flag inserted (if on paper targets, because there are persons forward of the firing line), and the magazine emptied. Gun, magazine and ammo on the table, not in your hand.

When the command "load" is given, you have one minute to load five rounds in the magazine and insert it into the gun. Close the slide to load the first round and wait for the "attention" command.
7 seconds after that the targets turn or the light turns green. You can shoot now.

When the string ends, you have the commands "stop" and "unload", here you remove the magazine, open the slide and insert the flag (paper targets), and place the gun and magazine on the table. If there is a cartridge on the magazine you should remove it.

You are not allowed to touch the gun, magazine or ammo until the next "load" command, with the exception of the rapid fire final and the women's sport pistol final if I'm not mistaken.

That is why, on ISSF style guns, there is no need for a safety. It´s either unloaded and on the table, or it's loaded on your hand for the next string. No in between.

Hope this helps

[David Levene]

You are not allowed to touch the gun, magazine or ammo until the next "load" command, with the exception of the rapid fire final and the women's sport pistol final if I'm not mistaken.

Now that's an interesting point (touching magazines); one that I was asked about a couple of months ago.

In the 2009 rules, 6.2.2.7.5 clearly states:-
"Any shooter who touches a gun or magazine, except to unload, after the command "STOP" has been given during an elimination or qualification, relay stage or series, without the permission of the Range Officer, may be disqualified."

There is no equivalent in the 2013 rules, the closest being:-

6.2.2.7:- "The handling of guns is not permitted and safety flags must be inserted when any personnel are forward of the firing line."

6.2.3.5:- "When the command or signal “STOP” is given, shooting must stop immediately. When the command “UNLOAD” is given, all athletes must unload their guns and magazines, and make them safe (to unload air guns ask the Range Officer for permission). Shooting may only resume when the command “START” is given again."

6.12.7.d:- "If the Jury determines than an athlete has handled a gun or violated a safety rule in a dangerous manner, the athlete must be disqualified."

There's nothing I can see in the latest rules to stop a shooter touching his gun (unless personnel are forward) or unloaded magazines (at any time).

[Marc Orvin]

Interesting difference between the old and new rulebooks there. I noticed that about a year ago at a 25m match. I was about to caution a shooter about handling magazines when I thought I should first look up the rule. I was surprised when I couldn't find it.

If you are shooting air pistol, the load command (in finals) means that you don't put the pellet into the loading port or anywhere in the pistol until the word LOAD is said. That means you don't start the loading process as soon as the range officer says, "For" (as in For your next competition shot, Load).

I noticed in the videos of the World Championships that this was not enforced in a couple of instances. I saw folks drop a pellet on the ramp previous to any command, then slide the loading gate shut as soon as they heard FOR.

[scausi]

Nothing Harsh about my reply. Conradin bought pistols last year to shoot rapid and 25m. And has been on this forum for years talking about and giving advise on ISSF disciplines.
The first thing you do, when you start shooting a new discipline is be familiar with the match rules .even before you would fire a shot the range officer would call load ,if he wasn't sure then would be a good time to ask.
So get over it .I am entitled to my opinion
Cheers .S

[rmca]

There's nothing I can see in the latest rules to stop a shooter touching his gun (unless personnel are forward) or unloaded magazines (at any time).

I would add this to the articles you cited:

6.2.3.2 Guns and their magazines may only be loaded on the firing point
and after the command “LOAD” or “START” is given. At all other
times, guns and magazines must be kept unloaded.

Although the rules don't state clearly that you can't handle magazines, it is my interpretation that a magazine is a part of the gun, and therefore, if you're not allowed to handle the gun, you're not allowed to handle the magazine (with the exceptions mentioned for the finals).

What would you say?

[conradin]

_________________
Vince Lucian-Magdalaine C. E. Ho-Bridgman
Winzeler 102 NSH LI EL - Morini CM84E - Steyr LP10E - Anschütz 8100 Club - Pardini SP
NRA Certified Instructor#194102733
CRPA #321307 - USA Shooting# 1033130

How can you be an NRA instructor ,
CPRA ?
USA Shooting ?
and not what the load command means are you for real.
or does NRA - stand for -- Not Really Anything

Instructor means teaching how to shoot. For competition you have to get a coach license. They are totally different.

the reason why I asked is that IIIRC watching the WCH RFP finals I saw one of the competitors already have one of his magazines loaded before the command is given, and when the command is given, he merely put the magazine into the pistol. This is different from B/E.
BTW NRA instructor means teaching students using two hands. The one hand ("competition") style are only "optional". You teach that one if a student ask for it. You have no obligation to teach single hand. There are two courses which an instructor will teach over: First Step, which means you teach the absolute neophyte what a pistol is, the terminology, safety, and then a few shots. Then there is the basic course which teach you just about anything in terms of using the pistol for self defense. I actually went through a international (ISSF) coaching class. The instructor assumes you know how to handle the pistol well, so it is all classroom stuff.

[conradin]

_________________

How can you be an NRA instructor ,
CPRA ?
USA Shooting ?
and not what the load command means are you for real.
or does NRA - stand for -- Not Really Anything

PS: I do FP and AP so I never have to worry about that part.

[conradin]

Nothing Harsh about my reply. Conradin bought pistols last year to shoot rapid and 25m. And has been on this forum for years talking about and giving advise on ISSF disciplines.
The first thing you do, when you start shooting a new discipline is be familiar with the match rules .even before you would fire a shot the range officer would call load ,if he wasn't sure then would be a good time to ask.
So get over it .I am entitled to my opinion
Cheers .S

No, not offended a bit. This thread solves my question. I was taught Bullseye, I have only ONE STP match so far in my life...it is embarrassing since I literally do not know what is what. and which procedure is which. It was a great learning experience. I specifically like learning how to set up the range.

[David Levene]

Although the rules don't state clearly that you can't handle magazines, it is my interpretation that a magazine is a part of the gun, and therefore, if you're not allowed to handle the gun, you're not allowed to handle the magazine (with the exceptions mentioned for the finals).

Without checking, I can't think of anywhere in the rules where, if they are to be included, they don't say "guns and magazines".

[David Levene]

the reason why I asked is that IIIRC watching the WCH RFP finals I saw one of the competitors already have one of his magazines loaded before the command is given, and when the command is given, he merely put the magazine into the pistol. [/quote]

The RFP final is an exception to the general rule, see 6.17.5.g.

What confuses me is that, probably about a year ago, you were keen to say that you had complete sets of the rules going back ??? years. Were they just for show on your library shelves?

[conradin]

Going thru all the rules of course will probably solve problems. But it may be more efficient if I simply ask the question here. If everyone decides to use the rule book, then I am sure most would be self-answered.
Not many people seems to be like you, a walking rules encyclopedia. Perhaps at the top of all the forums we simply put "RTFM", then I am sure the traffic will be drastically reduced.

[David Levene]

Not many people seems to be like you, a walking rules encyclopedia.

Not at all. Yes, I may know the rules better than many, but only because I look up anything I'm not sure of.