Hi all,
The nose heaviness of my 46M is really starting to annoy me. I put a Rink grip on a while ago and that was an improvement. Is there anything to be done to combat this issue; would adding a weight beneath the palm rest "counter balance" or would it just add weight and make things worse? Any suggestions appreciated.
balancing nose heavy AP?
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Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
There's always the "more training" option but I'm not sure how much you already train with the pistol. I used a powerball for a while with good results and developed good wrist endurance. No need for 'things' though as you can easily simply train with the pistol itself doing longer (+ few reps) dry firing/gripping exercises at the same time. Don't forget that with any weight training regimen, one of the most important part is proper recovery. Consistency is also underrated. If you "don't have time", do less but more often. No point in doing this once for an hour every 2 weeks.
That said, I ended up selling both of mine for that very reason (the 2nd being heavier than the first...) - after matches or longer training sessions, I developed tendinitis that would last for a few days - meaning less training possible. Training was moderately helpful but the low level sting right at the top of the wrist was always present after using it. Shame because it's a GREAT AP. I did switch to a lighter pistol and that cleared up the problem. The older IZH-46 was better in that regard.
Unless you have great manual labor skills and can do a bit of surgery like Gerard and other members of TT posted on here, not much will ! Gerard will probably chime in but the exhaustive mods on his pistol only saved about 30g or so - and even there, that doesn't drastically change the balance.
That said, I ended up selling both of mine for that very reason (the 2nd being heavier than the first...) - after matches or longer training sessions, I developed tendinitis that would last for a few days - meaning less training possible. Training was moderately helpful but the low level sting right at the top of the wrist was always present after using it. Shame because it's a GREAT AP. I did switch to a lighter pistol and that cleared up the problem. The older IZH-46 was better in that regard.
Unless you have great manual labor skills and can do a bit of surgery like Gerard and other members of TT posted on here, not much will ! Gerard will probably chime in but the exhaustive mods on his pistol only saved about 30g or so - and even there, that doesn't drastically change the balance.
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
Greetings-
The Pardini barrel weights fit on the barrel of the IZH-46M. There are two versions:
http://www.pardiniguns.com/store/produc ... cts_id=452
http://www.pardiniguns.com/store/produc ... cts_id=453
They can be adjusted along the length of the barrel to meet your needs.
Cheers!
The Pardini barrel weights fit on the barrel of the IZH-46M. There are two versions:
http://www.pardiniguns.com/store/produc ... cts_id=452
http://www.pardiniguns.com/store/produc ... cts_id=453
They can be adjusted along the length of the barrel to meet your needs.
Cheers!
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
If it's only the torque effect on your wrist that is annoying you, adding weight at the far back can help. Guy I know did that with a SAM M10, that thing was basically neutral over the middle finger at the end, despite having additional weights at the front and at the back. Very strange feeling, but quite stable (mass moment of inertia works in any case, no matter where the weight is). But overall weight will of course increase by that. In my experience, more training is not really the answer to the balance point question; either you like the balance of a gun, or you don't, but it seems to be a very slow process to adjust to large variances in this regard. Overall weight is easier to train up to, but still a matter of taste.
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
Hi!
I don't know what access, if any, you may have to other match grade air pistols. But, if you can do it, by all means try out some other options.
When you factor in the time to train and compete, not to mention the incidental costs, such as travel and consumables such as targets and pellets, the most sensible and cost effective thing is to use the AP that suits you.
It's always a good idea to objectively evaluate your training. But, past a certain point, if your AP doesn't work for you, it's like trying to force yourself to wear shoes that don't fit.
Best Regards,
Jim
I don't know what access, if any, you may have to other match grade air pistols. But, if you can do it, by all means try out some other options.
When you factor in the time to train and compete, not to mention the incidental costs, such as travel and consumables such as targets and pellets, the most sensible and cost effective thing is to use the AP that suits you.
It's always a good idea to objectively evaluate your training. But, past a certain point, if your AP doesn't work for you, it's like trying to force yourself to wear shoes that don't fit.
Best Regards,
Jim
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
Sure Victor, I'll chime in, but your memory must be a bit foggy I think. No way I'd have done all that work for a measly 30 grams! The reported stock weight of a 46m is 2.86 pounds, or about 1,300 grams. I have heard from some here that the weight varies, and someone said theirs was closer to 1,270 grams. Mine sits at 1,070 grams today, with a much larger than stock grip I carved from maple. Even of the stock weight were 1,140 grams, I'd still have shaved off 70. And I know from the serious difference in feel in my hand that I took off a lot more than that. Wish I'd thought to weigh mine initially but frankly I didn't know I was going to take it so far. I'd say the most significant savings came from these modifications, in decending order:
- Cylinder mounted on a dowel in my lathe and turned thinner - offset it from centred in two different operations to leave sufficient strength in 'ribs' to resist cocking forces.
- Cocking lever shortened by about 3".
- Automatic cocking linkage parts removed, magnet installed to retain breech while loading in its place.
- Front barrel band removed and part of lower aluminum cylinder mount carved away.
- Front sight block cut down by about 45%.
- Two cross pins shortened about 1.5mm and re-grooved to make snap rings a snug fit on the thinned cylinder.
That's most of it I guess. The result is just 70 grams heavier than my Pardini K12, and any nose-heavy bias I don't notice. It actually feels pretty close to the Pardini in balance. And yes, some of it was challenging, even risky when it came to thinning the cylinder, but much can be done without going that far.
- Cylinder mounted on a dowel in my lathe and turned thinner - offset it from centred in two different operations to leave sufficient strength in 'ribs' to resist cocking forces.
- Cocking lever shortened by about 3".
- Automatic cocking linkage parts removed, magnet installed to retain breech while loading in its place.
- Front barrel band removed and part of lower aluminum cylinder mount carved away.
- Front sight block cut down by about 45%.
- Two cross pins shortened about 1.5mm and re-grooved to make snap rings a snug fit on the thinned cylinder.
That's most of it I guess. The result is just 70 grams heavier than my Pardini K12, and any nose-heavy bias I don't notice. It actually feels pretty close to the Pardini in balance. And yes, some of it was challenging, even risky when it came to thinning the cylinder, but much can be done without going that far.
- Stock 46m compared to lightened version
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
Haha. My memory is indeed always foggy. 1070g ought to be much more comfortable to shoot with.
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
I've played with this "nose heaviness" a fair amount and have come to the conclusion (if not overdone) that it's a good thing. Currently, I have the optional weight for my LP1 out as far as it will go. In the past I have added moto stick-on wheel weights the front of my Pardini K58. I feel it reduces the "twitchiness" of a gun.
If you think it's giving you pain, then that is not a good thing. Pain tells you something's wrong. I suspect that the hyperextension of the wrist (too much angle) is what is giving you problems. I'd check that before making any major (read expensive) changes.
If you think it's giving you pain, then that is not a good thing. Pain tells you something's wrong. I suspect that the hyperextension of the wrist (too much angle) is what is giving you problems. I'd check that before making any major (read expensive) changes.
Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
Thanks for all for the suggestions. Is there a particular method for calculating how much weight Is needed or is trial and error the only way to go? 18 or 36 grams strikes me like it would be rather insignificant, but of course my lack of experience factors in to my guess.
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C. Perkins
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:31 pm
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Re: balancing nose heavy AP?
I too started with an Izzy.
It was noticeably nose heavy but shot descent scores with it.
When I switched to my LP1 it seemed so light compared to the Izzy, too light for me and with no muzzle forward weight at all.
To make it overall heavier with no real muzzle heaviness felt, I added the grip shelf weight and two barrel weights.
One weight is all the way forward and one all the way rearward.
Never thought to weigh mine but just did a few minutes ago just to see where it sits in comparison and if anyone else would like to add weight.
Mine is an LP1 with an XLarge Steyr grip, long PCP cylinders, grip weight and 2 barrel weights = 1140 grams.
It was noticeably nose heavy but shot descent scores with it.
When I switched to my LP1 it seemed so light compared to the Izzy, too light for me and with no muzzle forward weight at all.
To make it overall heavier with no real muzzle heaviness felt, I added the grip shelf weight and two barrel weights.
One weight is all the way forward and one all the way rearward.
Never thought to weigh mine but just did a few minutes ago just to see where it sits in comparison and if anyone else would like to add weight.
Mine is an LP1 with an XLarge Steyr grip, long PCP cylinders, grip weight and 2 barrel weights = 1140 grams.
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