Why You Buy a Steyr LP10

[Muffo]

Its funny how you say that. I had some time yesterday to watch the finals of 4 world cups this year. The one thing almost every finalist had in common was extra weights on their air pistols. A large majority had a large amount of extra weights. I didnt see a single pistol that had been lightened in anyway.

Before anyone tries copying those finalists by adding extra weight, can I suggest that the starting point should be doing the hours of daily training that they do.

Probably correct. I use to shoot with a lot of weight on my pistol as I was strong and did a lot of training. I havent shot for a couple of years now due to injury. Probably 3 years since I have done any. I have stripped every weight off my pistol and its still to heavy. Im tired after 15 mins. But I will work back up to it and eventually add some weight back

[seamaster]

My 46M has been leaking air for quite some time. So I shoot LP10 exclusively for a while. I know what my baseline performance on LP10 is.

Recently, with the help of Doug White, I was able to replace the leaking inner seal. It took a lot of effort and trials. I took it apart, from the back, and put it back a few times. Finally, I got the little inner seal replaced. 46m leaks no more. It was quite a joy.

Since then, I shoot exclusively with this beasty 46M. I got reintroduced to this beasty air pistol. This is a very manly, muscular air pistol. Once I got to know its idiosyncracies again. The score is very much in par with my LP10 score.

When I was shooting LP10 exclusively, I thought 46M was "inferior", has potential, but not quite as refined as LP10. Now after spending many "joyous" days toiling with it, both repairing and shooting it, I like it every bit as much as my LP10. It has a very robust, acquired taste. Very accurate once you got to know its idiosyncracies.

So I am very much convinced, when it comes down to shooting, it is not what you have that determined your score. It is the how to shoot with what you have that is important.

[Rover]

Gee, who would have thought you could shoot a SSP as well as a PCP? (sarcasm font)

[Rover]

Here ya go, Scrench. Save all that heartache and money.

viewtopic.php?t=46430

[Scrench]

rover,
But my LP10 ended up costing less than that, and I am now solidly in the Steyr camp. Thought you'd be all over it. Love to have the grip though.

Guys,
Most of the coaches today still teach by traditional, proven methods, handed down before the era of "dead" guns, and that's why you are going to see people in the finals at a world cup from China, Russia, Finland etc... still doing it that way. Russia still had tubes in their jets until the late 60's! Some enlightened individual at the top level is going to figure out that he doesn't have to be miserable by being in a weight lifting contest at the same time he's trying to shoot competitive pistols, and when that guy gets some success, the flood gate will open.

Obviously practice and discipline comes first. I'm not trying to convince anybody that a lighter gun will magically make you a better shooter. All I'm saying is that after you've gone to all the effort and hours to get where you are, why not make it easier on yourself, which in my opinion, a lighter gun does. I enjoy shooting my pistol many times more now simply because of the weight, and consequently, practice and shoot more often. If that's the reason I now consistently shoot higher scores than before, so be it, but it's still because of the weight. I dread picking up the IZH now because it is more of a chore, feels like a boat anchor, akin to lifting dumbbells, when compared to the LP10. Bottom line, the Steyr is just more fun, and makes me WANT to shoot it.

Here's a quick way to find out how much weight is right for you. Go to your kitchen. Make a fist with your thumb sticking up, hold your arm out in the shooting stance, and aim at something. Note how long you can comfortably hold that aim. Next do the same but with a gallon of milk or whatever in that same hand with your thumb up. Note how much Less time you can spend holding that aim point. That alone proves how much easier it is to hold less weight on a certain spot. Now, to find out how much you are comfortable with, ransack your pantry and pull out soup, tuna, bean, whatever kind of cans you have. Hold different combinations in your hand doing the same as above until you find just the right combination that feels heavy enough to give you stability, but as light as you dare go. Keep in mind that the weights listed on all product is the weight of the contents of the container, and does not include the container. Either use a scale or allow for the weight of the containers when totaling up. Okay, okay, now some of you think it's time for me to take a trip to the loony bin, but that's the way I did it. I used a scale and mimicked the exact weight of my IZH 46 which was a large soup can and 2 tuna cans, then started experimenting with less and less weights until I found what felt good for me. Guess what? It was 900 grams, exactly what I have my LP10 weighing now. Sound nuts, yeah, like a guy flying a kite in a lightning storm, but give it a try, see what you think, and report back your findings if you dare. I'm certainly no genius, but come on guys, this is common sense. Make the gun fit you, not the other way around.

Scrench

[jps2486]

I've owned plenty of guns over the years, some good, some not so good. I'm unwilling to buy something that doesn't have the reputation of being one of the best. I'm now 74 and still consider myself a pretty good pistol shooter, so I found a used Steyr and couldn't pass it up. While I doubt I will ever be an olympic shooter at my age, I can still hold my own, therefore, I really enjoy this gun. If it didn't live up to it's reputation, you can bet it would be back on the market for sale.

[Andre]

I went to the JO's shooting a Tau7, twice. The second time we got an email in the airport about the 10 year cylinder limit....and if you don't know Tau7's are ancient......
Thankfully we have friends in Colorado that moved there to train and he lent me his LP10. I had 2 days of dry firing and adjusting it before the practice day and match. I shot my high score twice, and fell in love with the pistol. If I had the money I would buy it in a heartbeat. I know a lot of people have them, and they are mainstream, but I really liked it and with really no practice before I shot really well with it. Steady as a rock compared to the tau7. What a great feel when it shoots, too. A clean trigger break, and no muzzle flip compared to the co2 tau. Really boosted my confidence and that helped a lot too.

[Muffo]

rover,
But my LP10 ended up costing less than that, and I am now solidly in the Steyr camp. Thought you'd be all over it. Love to have the grip though.

Guys,
Most of the coaches today still teach by traditional, proven methods, handed down before the era of "dead" guns, and that's why you are going to see people in the finals at a world cup from China, Russia, Finland etc... still doing it that way. Russia still had tubes in their jets until the late 60's! Some enlightened individual at the top level is going to figure out that he doesn't have to be miserable by being in a weight lifting contest at the same time he's trying to shoot competitive pistols, and when that guy gets some success, the flood gate will open.

Obviously practice and discipline comes first. I'm not trying to convince anybody that a lighter gun will magically make you a better shooter. All I'm saying is that after you've gone to all the effort and hours to get where you are, why not make it easier on yourself, which in my opinion, a lighter gun does. I enjoy shooting my pistol many times more now simply because of the weight, and consequently, practice and shoot more often. If that's the reason I now consistently shoot higher scores than before, so be it, but it's still because of the weight. I dread picking up the IZH now because it is more of a chore, feels like a boat anchor, akin to lifting dumbbells, when compared to the LP10. Bottom line, the Steyr is just more fun, and makes me WANT to shoot it.

Here's a quick way to find out how much weight is right for you. Go to your kitchen. Make a fist with your thumb sticking up, hold your arm out in the shooting stance, and aim at something. Note how long you can comfortably hold that aim. Next do the same but with a gallon of milk or whatever in that same hand with your thumb up. Note how much Less time you can spend holding that aim point. That alone proves how much easier it is to hold less weight on a certain spot. Now, to find out how much you are comfortable with, ransack your pantry and pull out soup, tuna, bean, whatever kind of cans you have. Hold different combinations in your hand doing the same as above until you find just the right combination that feels heavy enough to give you stability, but as light as you dare go. Keep in mind that the weights listed on all product is the weight of the contents of the container, and does not include the container. Either use a scale or allow for the weight of the containers when totaling up. Okay, okay, now some of you think it's time for me to take a trip to the loony bin, but that's the way I did it. I used a scale and mimicked the exact weight of my IZH 46 which was a large soup can and 2 tuna cans, then started experimenting with less and less weights until I found what felt good for me. Guess what? It was 900 grams, exactly what I have my LP10 weighing now. Sound nuts, yeah, like a guy flying a kite in a lightning storm, but give it a try, see what you think, and report back your findings if you dare. I'm certainly no genius, but come on guys, this is common sense. Make the gun fit you, not the other way around.

Scrench

The problem with that is its a competition to shoot the highest score not to feel the most comfortable

[dronning]

rover,
..... Make the gun fit you, not the other way around.
Scrench

The problem with that is its a competition to shoot the highest score not to feel the most comfortable

++ It is not about comfort! A proper fitting grip is one that allows you to have a good hold and activate the trigger with the least movement from the other muscles in your hand and not the most comfortable.

Great example is in Bullseye competition. Most people will agree that a 1911 with an arched mainspring will feel better in their hand. But many can't shoot as well with an arched mainspring.

- Dave

[David Levene]

rover,
..... Make the gun fit you, not the other way around.
Scrench

The problem with that is its a competition to shoot the highest score not to feel the most comfortable

++ It is not about comfort! A proper fitting grip is one that allows you to have a good hold and activate the trigger with the least movement from the other muscles in your hand and not the most comfortable.

As far as I could see, Scrench's point was more regarding weight.

Whilst a lighter, less nose heavy, gun might feel better in the hand, because of inertia it is likely to be more susceptible to movement caused by slight trigger errors.

That is one reason why the top international shooters do so much training to give them the strength and endurance to use the heavier guns.

[Muffo]

rover,
..... Make the gun fit you, not the other way around.
Scrench

The problem with that is its a competition to shoot the highest score not to feel the most comfortable

++ It is not about comfort! A proper fitting grip is one that allows you to have a good hold and activate the trigger with the least movement from the other muscles in your hand and not the most comfortable.

As far as I could see, Scrench's point was more regarding weight.

Whilst a lighter, less nose heavy, gun might feel better in the hand, because of inertia it is likely to be more susceptible to movement caused by slight trigger errors.

That is one reason why the top international shooters do so much training to give them the strength and endurance to use the heavier guns.

That is my point

[Scrench]

That is one excellent point I have not considered at all, and thank you for bringing it up, the fact that a lighter pistol has the potential to magnify slight imperfections in trigger movement. I wonder how much of that can be compensated for by balance. Since wiggles and wobbles can be reduced by adding nose weight, I would think that you could also balance out trigger improprieties to a degree. This is an issue I never considered because I have been a professional guitar player for over 40 years and I can completely move all of my fingers individually from the others. Finger isolation and control is not an issue for me. If you really want to learn finger control, take up any musical instrument which requires individual finger movement and pressure; guitar, piano, and the like, or even learning to type well in the traditional method using all of your fingers which I also can do at 120 wpm, not pecking at a keyboard as most texters do with two fingers.

But still, shouldn't the most comfortable grip also be the best fitting and the one that will allow your hand muscles to relax the most, since they are in their most natural position, thereby enabling the most flexibility and isolation in your fingers? Isn't this all about the same thing? Looking at it the other way, if your grip allows you to move your trigger finger independently, but is uncomfortable in some way, how long are you going to be able to hold it and get consistent shots before its discomfort erases the advantage of finger movement? Maybe I look at this all wrong because I am at best an average shooter, but I find I shoot my best when I'm almost asleep. I try to relax myself as much as possible to reduce breathing, heart rate, stress and any bodily function that I have control over. This is why I always tell the stupid joke to newcomers that zombies would be perfect at this sport, no thoughts, no breathing, no heartrate, and just wait till' Rigor Mortis sets in! But jokes aside, the implication is clear, to make my body as dead as the gun. For me, being comfortable, in all the different aspects that can encompass, from my shoes to the gun, is essential and allows me to perform my best by releasing me from any concerns but concentrating on shooting straight.

If you trained at the top level of this sport and had near perfect technique, the strength and endurance that you never felt fatigue, and you made your gun feel like it weighed nothing and fit so well that it was a part of your hand, and your mental game allowed no distractions, all you are missing is execution on the line. But you have taken every possible step you can to enable yourself the opportunity to be flawless. My friends these are all conditions which you are free to choose to surround yourself with, these are choices we can all make, and temper by degree. How serious do you want to be?

Best Regards to All,

Scrench

[Muffo]

That is one excellent point I have not considered at all, and thank you for bringing it up, the fact that a lighter pistol has the potential to magnify slight imperfections in trigger movement. I wonder how much of that can be compensated for by balance. Since wiggles and wobbles can be reduced by adding nose weight, I would think that you could also balance out trigger improprieties to a degree. This is an issue I never considered because I have been a professional guitar player for over 40 years and I can completely move all of my fingers individually from the others. Finger isolation and control is not an issue for me. If you really want to learn finger control, take up any musical instrument which requires individual finger movement and pressure; guitar, piano, and the like, or even learning to type well in the traditional method using all of your fingers which I also can do at 120 wpm, not pecking at a keyboard as most texters do with two fingers.

But still, shouldn't the most comfortable grip also be the best fitting and the one that will allow your hand muscles to relax the most, since they are in their most natural position, thereby enabling the most flexibility and isolation in your fingers? Isn't this all about the same thing? Looking at it the other way, if your grip allows you to move your trigger finger independently, but is uncomfortable in some way, how long are you going to be able to hold it and get consistent shots before its discomfort erases the advantage of finger movement? Maybe I look at this all wrong because I am at best an average shooter, but I find I shoot my best when I'm almost asleep. I try to relax myself as much as possible to reduce breathing, heart rate, stress and any bodily function that I have control over. This is why I always tell the stupid joke to newcomers that zombies would be perfect at this sport, no thoughts, no breathing, no heartrate, and just wait till' Rigor Mortis sets in! But jokes aside, the implication is clear, to make my body as dead as the gun. For me, being comfortable, in all the different aspects that can encompass, from my shoes to the gun, is essential and allows me to perform my best by releasing me from any concerns but concentrating on shooting straight.

If you trained at the top level of this sport and had near perfect technique, the strength and endurance that you never felt fatigue, and you made your gun feel like it weighed nothing and fit so well that it was a part of your hand, and your mental game allowed no distractions, all you are missing is execution on the line. But you have taken every possible step you can to enable yourself the opportunity to be flawless. My friends these are all conditions which you are free to choose to surround yourself with, these are choices we can all make, and temper by degree. How serious do you want to be?

Best Regards to All,

Scrench

The most comfortable grip would simply be a mold of your hand. many people have tried it and it simply doesnt work. there are only 3 functions of a grip. 1 to enable you to grip the pistol from front to back.
2 to allow you to release a shot without any disturbance to the sights.
3 to allow you to grip the pistol exactly the same every single time and make sure you realise if your hand is a few mm out if you pick it up differently.

Comfort is not a factor and it doenst make you shoot better. In saying this a properly fitting grip is only uncomfortable if you havent quiet placed your hand in the right spot. there fore when gripped correctly it doesnt cause any discomfort and you can hold it and get consistent shots for the whole match.

Shooting in a coma was all well and good once upon a time, then they introduced finals. Then after that they introduced elimination finals. It might be a good way to shoot a 60 shot score but then It doesnt mean anything when you are the first one eliminated because good luck being almost asleep when you are in a final with your head on the chopping block and 75 seconds to shoot 1 perfect shot

[rmca]

when you are in a final with your head on the chopping block and 75 seconds to shoot 1 perfect shot

50 Seconds per shot after two series of three shots in 150 seconds.

[Muffo]

when you are in a final with your head on the chopping block and 75 seconds to shoot 1 perfect shot

50 Seconds per shot after two series of three shots in 150 seconds.

Yeah I forgot about the change in time, I havent shot since the new rules due to injury. The same thing still applies tho