Why Can't I Buy a Steyr LP10 Long?

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:17 pm

Shaky Hands: The point being that this crap was being babbled about 10 YEARS AGO (in case you didn't notice) on this same forum with STILL no resolution.

My feeling is that Scott is tired of this and is telling us what we REALLY need.

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:19 pm

Rover wrote:Shaky Hands: The point being that this crap was being babbled about 10 YEARS AGO (in case you didn't notice) on this same forum with STILL no resolution.

My feeling is that Scott is tired of this and is telling us what we REALLY need.

I guess you refuse to read my follow-up posts.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:40 pm

So you've never even shot AP, but it is somehow are can't to you that he's giving away airmpistols to those shooting within the top 5% level... I guess you're optimistic and that has value. Still, I wouldn't recommend worrying too much about it for at least a couple of years, until you have a few thousand hours of training behind you.

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:58 pm

I never said that I have not SHOT air pistol, only that I have never owned one or shot it in a competition. But I might have logged in thousands of hours in free, standard, conventional, and rapid fire, dry fire and SCATT, how do you know? Bragging in a anonymous forum would be cheap.

Anyway, you are saying my chances are so remote I shouldn't even care about the details of the actual offer. Wouldn't that in itself indicate the offer is moot and not so generous?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:08 pm

pilkguns wrote: I am putting my money where my beliefs are. If you think you can prove me wrong, and can do it, then I am willing to GIVE YOU $2400 worth of pistol. That is money straight out of my pocket and into yours if I am wrong. Like any new concept, there will be some tweaking of it as time goes by. I have already been pushed to drop the orginal posted limit from 560 to 555. If someone has a more credible way to assess skill, then I am willing to listen.

Who isn't bothering to go back and read? Scott's statement should have made it plain enough. There is nothing carved in stone, he's open to input. What are your ideas? What score, event, etcetera ought to get you a free pistol?

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:19 pm

Gerard wrote: Who isn't bothering to go back and read? Scott's statement should have made it plain enough. There is nothing carved in stone, he's open to input. What are your ideas? What score, event, etcetera ought to get you a free pistol?

I read it pretty carefully, that is why I asked the follow-up question: "what are the matches that would be accepted for the qualification purposes for an adult civilian non-collegiate shooter? Only National Championships? How about NRA sectionals? Desert Midwinter? State matches?"

mark e · Post by **mark e** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:18 am

Gerard I agree in part when you said
the more heated aspects of this discussion sound a lot like a loud muh freedums sort of complain...

but I say again the way I was treated.....
when I tried to buy one from him he just said " NO " as well as making me feel like dirt and a second or even third class Citizen, and talking down to me like I was wasting his time and bothering him ... he did not explain his policy or why ... when he hung up on me I was wondering what the heck just happened.

you can not draw people into a sport acting like that

His poor people skills dare I say hurts the sport more than his policy..
as much as I enjoy my LP 10 its also a reminder of how I was treated, and how that treatment cast a shadow on the sport as a whole. if there was a kid with a lot of potential just starting out, treatment like that might drive them away... does no one else see this???? any beginner needs to be encouraged not blown off like there a waste of time.

All Scott had to Do was say that his policy was...... but I could get what I want from....... and I would have respected that. I've talked to a few people around the airgun circuit here (benchrest and FT) that were treated the same way from scott . that will drive people away from a sport faster than anything else ....

NOTE TO READERS: I have evidence that this poster is a liar and troll, please see my response later in this thread, Scott Pilkington

spence · Post by **spence** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:12 pm

mark e,

No one likes being treated badly. I don't blame you for feeling a little burned. I have never spoken to Scott but,

I would remind everyone interested in this topic that none of us is without flaw and *perhaps*...

hosting this message board

making tons of the best gear available in the US

hosting many, many web pages giving support information to owners of guns that he doesn't even sell and are no longer made

as well as pages of training information ..... on and on....

...all this might make up in some small way for the "damage" done to the sport by being rude on the phone once in a while. Look at the big picture, please.

At first, I didn't like the policy but it's something he believes and he's willing to give up income to stand behind it.

I would rather get great advice from a grump and then go spend time with my friends and enjoy the fruits of that advice than get advice from nice person who won't take a stand, and push a little, to help people see the light. I have learned vastly more of what I've learned in 63 years from gifted, brilliant grumps than I have ever learned from from people who are nice at all cost.

It's just very hard to find people who have everything. Be glad of the things in which each person excels and the gifts they bring to the table.

Spence

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:10 pm

" I have learned vastly more of what I've learned in 63 years from gifted, brilliant grumps than I have ever learned from from people who are nice at all cost. "

Damn, I love it when people say nice things about me!

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:26 pm

To be honest as long as Scott does not prevent Buck from working on non works (ie. Pilkington sold) long barrel pistols, or put them at the end of the work bench queue, I really do not have any problems with whatever he wants to do with his shop.

Post by **pilkguns** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:00 pm

JohnB, You know I think the world of you, but once your burned by the score, your burned. While for someone shooting in the high 540s or low 550s it might be worth a gamble, on a new gun, but most of those guys are shooting Steyrs already :^)

shaky hands, if you bothered to look at my info, you would know that you could qualify right there in Utah.

mark e, I have had many conversations with various individuals about this policy since going “live’ with it in December. Some over multiple phone calls. Some were perhaps testy at time, but all were amiable overall. Many have bought a gun at the end. I don't know who you are, but I can tell you I have never hung up on anyone. I can’t imagine why I would. First, it’s not in my personality. And second, why would I , if I am trying to sell you a gun? In short, I am calling you a liar. Given your location, and some of your other allegations, I can only conclude that you are a troll for a certain other individual in your same state.

Spence, Gerard, Uli, SamEEE, Vince, Rover, David L, Roger and others. Thank your for your kind words and or thoughtful posts.

And for the record, we are including free with each LP10C we sell, ( C stands for Champion ;^) , a second set of barrel weights, so that if you want to weight the end of the barrel to balance the same as a long, you can do it. So in essence, there are no negatives for a beginning or medium level competitor to purchase from us a LP10C, only positives.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:14 pm

pilkguns wrote:Given your location, and some of your other allegations, I can only conclude that you are a troll for a certain other individual in your same state.

OH NO, REALLY??? That's creepy if your guess is right! Thought we'd seen the last of that idiot.

john bickar · Post by **john bickar** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:57 pm

pilkguns wrote:JohnB, You know I think the world of you, but once your burned by the score, your burned. While for someone shooting in the high 540s or low 550s it might be worth a gamble, on a new gun, but most of those guys are shooting Steyrs already :^)

*shakes tiny fist of Internet rage at Scott*

spence · Post by **spence** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:12 pm

Rover wrote:" I have learned vastly more of what I've learned in 63 years from gifted, brilliant grumps than I have ever learned from from people who are nice at all cost. "

Damn, I love it when people say nice things about me!

Well Rover, gifted, brilliant, grump you got one out of three, I'll give you that. Never a dull moment when you post to a topic. Keep it up.

Spence

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:27 pm

pilkguns wrote:
shaky hands, if you bothered to look at my info, you would know that you could qualify right there in Utah.

That would be awesome, Scott, and I would start working on my wife right away. Forgive my stubbornness, but $1900 is a big investment. In Utah there are currently only PTOs for official USAS affiliated matches. Would they be valid?

Sorry for being dumb, but your website info only says, "If you shoot a 555+ score at a major competition*... * Examples of such would be a USAS Selection Matches, Collegiate Championships or USASNC."

I was under the impression that USAS Selection Matches and USAS National Championships were once-a-year events quite expensive to attend, and I am not a college student.

Post by **pilkguns** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:05 pm

shaky,
I know when, I wrote that, I was considering PTOs and Selection matches to be one and the same, and when I answered you about Utah, I was still thinking of PTO's , which I know used to occur regularly there in SLC, but you are right, they are different. Call it getting old, or brainfart or whatever.

In any event, I would accept a PTO score that was from bigger well run PTO. If its a major event, with 15-20 competitors, then yeah, I think that's legit. If its only got 3-4 guys shooting, then yeahhhh, I'm going to look a bit askance at that. Yes I know, I'm being ambiguous here, but not to be disingenuous, but because I don't want to limit honest effort, but at the same time, I have be on guard against potential fraud. Likewise I would expect to see some history, other matches you've shot in, with progressive scores. If someone buys a gun, having never competed in AP before, and turns in immediately a qualifying score, and never shoots again. ,then I'm gonna be suspicious.

I guesss in a case like this, I would have to look at the specifics of individual PTOs and say , Yeah or Nay, I will accept scores from this place beforehand if you don't think you will be traveling.... although, honestly the goal of this project is to get more shooters who are going to travel to matches because they are shooting the scores to make it worthwhile.

In short, If I think your legit , then I'm going to be legit. Does that make sense?

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:40 pm

Yes, it is legit from your side. Am I legit? I will let you decide. Openness is the best policy. You will tell me if you want to enter a deal with me. Here is my background.

I do not own an air pistol, but wanted to get one eventually. I shoot more or less seriously from 2008. I have won a few matches in my home state in conventional (high 863 in a match), standard (539), and rapid fire pistol (540), nothing to brag about, and honestly only won because the field is rather thin these days. I have never taken part in an air pistol match. Two people can attest to my legitimacy as a journeyman shooter, Arnie Vitarbo and John Zurek.

Will I be able to shoot 555 during my very first match? It is possible. Is it possible I will not achieve 555 after 8-10 PTOs we usually have each year? It is possible too. Yes, I want to eventually start traveling to bigger matches, but it is not feasible for me for the next three years for family and work reasons. At most I can sneak away travel to Arizona or Colorado.

Our PTOs in air usually have around 10-15 shooters, more when collegiates are around, less in summer. I have no intention to cheat, nor do I consider 555 something to be proud of.

Would I offer a shooter like me the deal you have in mind? No. Will you? You decide. I am PMing you my identity.

mark e · Post by **mark e** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:46 am

Scott, first off ...if you have never hung up on anyone, than it could not have been you that I talked to and in that case I do apologize for any comments that I directed toward you.
I do know several airgun people from all over including Wisconsin and Ohio,
so it is possible I know the person you referee to ... but I am no ones troll.

as for your policy .... its your business

I think if a short was more forgiving than the pros would be using them instead of the longs (my opinion), and from experience, I shoot better with a long than I do with a short but as I said before, compared to some here I would have to get better to suck, but I suck a lot worse with a short....

Post by **pilkguns** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:28 am

shaky, My first thoughts were that yes, sure you can do that, and while you are not my intended user of the programs, it’s a risk I take. But the more I have thought about it all, technically, based on what you’ve said about your scores, you are the exactly the competitor who should be getting the long, under the provisions I have specified on my webpage. Ie, Arnie V and John Z as coaches vouching for you is more than good enough for me.

mark e, After your last posting , I searched out your email, and said "Aha, that sounds familiar" and then I went digging through some emails on another computer. I found emails from February of 2013, wherein you were writing directly to Steyr, with an imagined problem of me not getting you a Steyr , and encouraging Steyr to turn their pistols sales in the US over to another airgun dealer who happens to live near you. This was TEN MONTHS before I implemented the long sales program and nothing was said about you being hung up on in those emails, so your recent statements in this thread are pretty suspicious to me…..

Soooooooooo, My conclusions that you ARE a troll AND a liar have been confirmed.

Just calling it how I see it.

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:51 am

pilkguns wrote:shaky, My first thoughts were that yes, sure you can do that, and while you are not my intended user of the programs, it’s a risk I take. But the more I have thought about it all, technically, based on what you’ve said about your scores, you are the exactly the competitor who should be getting the long, under the provisions I have specified on my webpage. Ie, Arnie V and John Z as coaches vouching for you is more than good enough for me.

OK, Scott, fair enough. Just to not be misunderstood: I did not mention Arnie and John as those coaches who would confirm my competence, but rather as people who could confirm my legitimacy (that, upon winning a free gun I will not quit) and, hopefully, honesty. I am more of the rapid fire type than a born precision shooter, so 555 would be at least some challenge, initially, but probably not high enough to make it a good bet for you.

I will eventually stop procrastinating and get a long version, probably. But owning a Toz and having a SCATT to use it with, the whole exercise feels not very different from shooting air. May be if another wave of craziness sweeps .22 off the market, I will finally get around to buying one.