Well from Avery's picture it looks like the wrench section is at the front, between the cylinder and the gauge. Or am I seeing that, and therider is seeing the opposite? I only suggested it was the wrench flat section which was adding the 30 grams to the front of the K12 because I had a vague recollection of that section being at the front. Thanks for confirming that vague memory Avery. Ah yes, here it is, posted by Avery with pictures:
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... w=previous
And therider even responded in that thread, hoping they "get that in EU". Something about difficulty opening jars...
Weight of the K12 cilinder
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That is the cylinder I saw. Odd decision to increase so much the weight and to suggest bringing in your box a spanner to unscrew the cylinder.....particularly if that Australian plastic cloth, which I wished I could get in Eu, could be enough.
Why are the cylinder sticking to the frame? Are they made of the same material and they grip together?
Why are the cylinder sticking to the frame? Are they made of the same material and they grip together?
There could be another practical reason for the change. I guess that the gauge has been devices "in house", and it looks like a very clever idea if it works the way I imagine.
However in the previous version the gauge slides on the cylinder, which had to be machine thinner at the tip ( it looks like 1mm on the radius ) to allow for the sliding. A small imperfection and it would stick. More importantly, after machining, the thickness would not be enough to accommodate at the inside the thread to fix the gauge.
Yesterday I was at matchguns , once again to make small adjustments to my grip and to purchase a Mgh1 as a second lupi, and I have seen the raw material for cylinder tubes. It is really thin....just a couple of mm I guess. So i guess pardini uses thicker tubes
However in the previous version the gauge slides on the cylinder, which had to be machine thinner at the tip ( it looks like 1mm on the radius ) to allow for the sliding. A small imperfection and it would stick. More importantly, after machining, the thickness would not be enough to accommodate at the inside the thread to fix the gauge.
Yesterday I was at matchguns , once again to make small adjustments to my grip and to purchase a Mgh1 as a second lupi, and I have seen the raw material for cylinder tubes. It is really thin....just a couple of mm I guess. So i guess pardini uses thicker tubes
I rather doubt the cylinder itself is sticking to the frame, as it does not touch the frame. The part which sticks is the threaded portion attaching the cylinder to the frame. Threads sticking is a common problem if they are not maintained well. This applies in many, many mechanical parts, especially where aluminum is involved. Even hard anodized, aluminum is an inherently 'sticky' metal. One needs to clean the threads regularly, both on the part projecting out of the pistol frame and inside the end of the cylinder cap. A soft cloth with a bit of alcohol should be sufficient. I do this every few fillings, and after cleaning wipe on a tiny amount of white lithium grease.therider wrote:Why are the cylinder sticking to the frame? Are they made of the same material and they grip together?
I had a close look at ours , and the "australian plastic cloth' is made and sold by Tupperware as a "Tupperware Jar Opener - available everywhere. Here is one - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/2813269 ... e&lpid=107therider wrote:That is the cylinder I saw. Odd decision to increase so much the weight and to suggest bringing in your box a spanner to unscrew the cylinder.....particularly if that Australian plastic cloth, which I wished I could get in Eu, could be enough.
Why are the cylinder sticking to the frame? Are they made of the same material and they grip together?
I have always but a small 1 inch wide piece of "skateboard" (sandpaper grit) tape around a portion of the cylinder. Makes it extremely easy to put on and off. The official checking cylinder dates at one of the last matches loved me for it. Read somewhere on here at one time that you aren't suppose to stick anything to the cylinder?? Not sure why that would be or how the glue from tape would have any impact??
my tape doesn't cover the dates. put is on all my rifle and pistol cylinders and makes life easy.
I wonder how accurate the pardini guage actually is. I am use to a real guage with numbers and an needle. The new pardini cylinder guage doesn't look like you can even read it as accurately. Guess it will do the job and is close enough and really wont matter. With my morini short cylinder, I guess i still don't count on the guage too much except trying to fill it in the red as much as I can. If i can't get it in the red, I get about 15 sighters and another 40 shots before the low pressure locks it out and I have to override the cocking lever for the last 20 shots.
I wonder how accurate the pardini guage actually is. I am use to a real guage with numbers and an needle. The new pardini cylinder guage doesn't look like you can even read it as accurately. Guess it will do the job and is close enough and really wont matter. With my morini short cylinder, I guess i still don't count on the guage too much except trying to fill it in the red as much as I can. If i can't get it in the red, I get about 15 sighters and another 40 shots before the low pressure locks it out and I have to override the cocking lever for the last 20 shots.
At least as good as the dial indicator, but in that size I am quite sure that Pardini's instrument is better.USMC0802 wrote: I wonder how accurate the pardini guage actually is.
All my equipments are packed with pressure measuring instruments, both electronic and mechanical. The Bourdon dial gauges are very reliable, and you can get versions with very small resolution. Although I do not know the actual precision and resolution of the pressure dial gauges of our pressure cylinders, I expect that they are just givin a rough indication. I guess, that we are talking abou 10-20 bars, I cannot believe it is any better.
The principle on which Bourdon dial gauges are based is simple and clever, and motivated by the need of having a dial and read the pressure on the front, and keep the instrument thin. So there is a need of transforming a translating movement into a rotation.
We want to read the pressure on the side of the instrument, and we have no problem of thickness, so no need to transform a movement into a rotation. Then a much simpler principle can be used: a piston, sealed with a no-ring, and behind the seal a spring. As springs are linear, we just need to observe the movement of this piston to know the pressure. Easy, simple, clean! If you keep the tip of your Pardini cylinder clean and (May be) lubricated you are going to get a better instrument than a dial gauge in that size.
I don't know if that is Gianpiero Pardini's idea...if so I can only say "chapeau" in French, "respekt" in German, "I take my hat off" in English, "mi inchino" in Italian !
I can say there are problems with *new* K10 cylinders, not just the K12 cylinders. I've bought new cylinders for my old K10. The very first time I tried to unscrew the new cylinders ... it was not possible. So I think there is a problem, both with K10 and K12 cylinders, in the threaded portion attaching the cylinder to the frame, even if you screw the cylinders gently, slowly, and carefully. (The *old* K10 cylinders - apparently identical - are safe.)Gerard wrote: I rather doubt the cylinder itself is sticking to the frame, as it does not touch the frame. The part which sticks is the threaded portion attaching the cylinder to the frame. Threads sticking is a common problem if they are not maintained well.
Well this sounds like a very serious issue, something with which Pardini must deal immediately! Have you had any luck in getting a remedy for the situation from them? How have you used the cylinder, if it's stuck on the gun, or is the gun just useless now with a stuck cylinder?scerir wrote:I can say there are problems with *new* K10 cylinders, not just the K12 cylinders. I've bought new cylinders for my old K10. The very first time I tried to unscrew the new cylinders ... it was not possible. So I think there is a problem, both with K10 and K12 cylinders, in the threaded portion attaching the cylinder to the frame, even if you screw the cylinders gently, slowly, and carefully. (The *old* K10 cylinders - apparently identical - are safe.)
No, I didn't call Pardini. An "iron man" at the range did the job, it was easy for him to unscrew the cylinder (he is doing the job many times every week). New K10 cylinders do not have that "wrench" thing, only K12 cylinders have it. But I can say that, while screwing the K10 cylinder, at the very end, when the cylinder was softly, slowly screwed, I *immediately* tried to unscrew it: it was impossible already.Gerard wrote: Well this sounds like a very serious issue, something with which Pardini must deal immediately! Have you had any luck in getting a remedy for the situation from them? How have you used the cylinder, if it's stuck on the gun, or is the gun just useless now with a stuck cylinder?