Feedback on a Pardini K12 sought....

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:12 am

I would think the sight radius rather than the weight would be the answer to that question. Just an uneducated guess though. My short time experience with the heavier muzzle doesn't seem to make a difference in my hold by the radius does. Since you can typically get almost the same sight radius with a short gun (someone mentioned the K12 can achieve the same- don't know this to be a fact though), I would almost consider trading this in on a short so it would not be as muzzle heavy. The problem I had with my Morini is that is would barely make it through a match with sighters unless it was really over filled with pressure. Going to matches and filling with their near empty tanks had me changing my short cylinders half way through a match.
The new K12 cylinders are suppose to be lighter than the K10 but never had experience with those and don't know how much lighter they would be.

thirdwheel · Post by **thirdwheel** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:02 pm

The k12 cylinders are filled to 250 bar and seem to a very long time where as my wifes LP2 short cylinders are only filled to 200bar and she really needs to keep here eye on the pressure as it needs to be changed often. That 50 bar makes a big difference.

George

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:40 pm

I was thinking my Morini was a 300 bar but I am probably wrong about that. If I fill with one of my tanks at home, it lasts a long time. If I fill at a match, even though it gets up close to the red, it will just barely make it before the action locks out.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:22 am

Check your V0. The short Morinis of our club last for about 100 shots. My short K12 will do about 100, too, but with a higher V0 (around 158 m/sec).

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:50 pm

100 shots is about what I get if it is right on the line of red. I have found you can override the lockout for about another 15 shots before velocity is impacted based info we found while pellet testing and watching the chrono.

Post by **pilkguns** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:57 pm

[quote=" I have found you can override the lockout for about another 15 shots before velocity is impacted based info we found while pellet testing and watching the chrono.[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what the Morini is supposed to do. The lockout is a warning that you have 10-15 good shots left, before the velocity starts to change.

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:22 am

I understand that and like that feature. Overriding the lockout to try and get 15 more shots isn't something I like to mess with in a National or International match. Unfortunately, I have had to do that because I shoot a short cylinder and when you are not at home, you have to settle for the fill you can get.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:00 am

On the single Morini 162ei I did some pellet tests with, I found the accuracy deteriorated noticeably about 15 shots BEFORE the lockout.

This could be a fluke unique to the particular gun I was testing, though.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:02 am

I have had similar problems with my Lp10e. I did an ammunition test 3 weeks ago. I tested about 25 diabolos differening either for production set or for model/ producers. Only one out of. 25 had a nice superposition. This one I tested again five more times. However , consistently, at about 50% pressure, i.e. 100bars, the 5 shots spread to about 7-8mm diameter.
Since then I am now replacing the air cylinder when it reaches 100bars, even if Steyr, after fixing my pistol (for the trigger problem which I experienced) , wrote me back saying that air system was also tested and worked fine and that I could shoot 120 shots with each cylinder.

william · Post by **william** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:15 am

Climbing out on a potentially dangerous limb:
If the pistol is operating properly (which Steyr says it is) the last post makes no sense. As long as the cylinder pressure is above the internal regulator's setting there should be no difference in performance as cylinder pressure drops. Perhaps one places too much faith in the accuracy of the cylinder-end manometer.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:35 am

William, I have no idea. It was one of the salesmen of the shop (very big and experienced German one) who told me straight away that this was the problem. So I tested it and he was right: the five pellets, indistinguishable (as on the certificate attached to my pistol) with full cylinder, spread to about 7-8mm at 50%.
The salesman said this was normal.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:45 am

When testing at 10 metres in a vise with my old K10 I found that there was significant group size growth at around 70 bar of pressure. I wasn't sure, as it wasn't consistent, but it seemed there was even some opening up at 85 or 90 bar, though inconsistently so. Since then I've never shot the K10, and following that the K12, at lower than 90 bar. Pumping it full gives me a lot of shots, too many to worry about anyway, I haven't bothered counting how many. Groups stay small with enough pressure and it's easy enough to pump it up, so going into a weekend competition with two full cylinders is plenty. Mine's the full size version though. This sort of worry is one reason I wouldn't go for the short model. It's already under 1kg, doesn't seem heavy really.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:50 am

this is an example of the ammunition test. I bought pellets N.10

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:53 am

just see the difference between series n. 7 (from 30 to 35 shots), then series n.13 (from shot 60 to 65) and then subsequent series n.1 (new cylinder) ( from shot 1 tp 5).
Series 13 is easily 7 mm opening

william · Post by **william** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:53 am

therider wrote:William, I have no idea. It was one of the salesmen of the shop (very big and experienced German one) who told me straight away that this was the problem. So I tested it and he was right: the five pellets, indistinguishable (as on the certificate attached to my pistol) with full cylinder, spread to about 7-8mm at 50%.
The salesman said this was normal.

It reminds me of when the car dealership service manager tells a customer, "They all do this." The only proper response is, "They all need to be fixed, and I suggest you start with this one."

If this really is typical performance, then maybe Rover has been right all along (without even knowing how right he was) in his criticism of PCP.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:57 am

I think that I am going to buy a second pistol, and that will be a Matchguns MGH1. As I wrote in a previous post, I have been told that an engineer who tests regularly air pistols for a dealer, has found that MGH1 has the best pressure regulator he has ever seen in an air pistol.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:00 am

William, I guess it must be true. I was specifically asking Steyr to check air pressure too, as I noticed that it tended to drop to 100bar after just a few tens of shots.
They have clearly stated that they have checked and that it is in perfect working conditions and that I can shoot 120 shots with 1 cylinder.

brent375hh · Post by **brent375hh** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Did you test those with a chronograph as well? If it is shooting XXX feet per second with a full tank and the same velocity with a half full tank, then the accuracy should not change given the same projectile pushed along at the same speed.
If the velocity drops between full and half full, something is not right and I think that if that was common, it would be a well known fault of the LP10. While I have not put mine in a vise,I do not notice any POI shift from 200-60 bar.

therider · Post by **therider** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:43 am

Brent, I have not, because I have no access to such a device. I will try that as soon as I can. However, as I said, for Steyr everything is perfect. If you do test yours on a vice, please update us on the results.

S44captain · Post by **S44captain** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:14 pm

My K12 Junior just arrive today. It is my 2nd air pistol so I only have a BIAKAL to compare it to. The K12 is lighter and louder. Loud enough that shooting inside I put ears on. My groups are much smaller with the K12 but I had to play it safe and stop using it after putting a pellet into a cabinet by just shutting the breech. About every 4th pellet would fire by itself. Not sure what the issue is but remembering to point the gun at a pile of rugs every time you put a pellet in gets old. I'm really looking forward to finding out what it is as those tight groups were sweet!

TargetTalk

Feedback on a Pardini K12 sought....

K12JR