SURVEY: Why not a grip adjustable from outside ?

[therider]

Yesterday I was again in Parma for work and took the opportunity to go and greet Cesare Morini and explain him my latest crazy idea, hoping to convince him (which I did'nt manage to) to modify one MGH1 for me (in which case I would have bought it straight away).

Why not having a grip adjustable in horizontal rotation (better if also in vertical tilt) from the ouside, with screws similar to those used for the rear sight?

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again. So I don't blame Walther LP400 for needing tools to change the setting.

However I need changing the rotation of the grip often, depending on how stiff my neck muscles are. The stiffer they are, the more I need to move towards a front stance, hence the pistol must rotate to the right. Often during training I would need to adjust it a few times.
Having to remove the grip is not handy. A step screw would be a dream!

Who agrees with this?

[rmca]

I don't. It would add more complexity and fragility to the grip/gun joint. Unnecessary in my view.

Most (if not all) shooters don't change their position. They may try a few, but then settle on the one that gives them better results.

You are asking for a solution to a problem that is specific to you. Once I've adjusted the grip position on my LP10 I never needed to change it again.

I do need to use a click or two on the sights, depending on which range I'm shooting at.

Hope this helps

[DLS]

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again.

Wow! How do you pull that off?

With differing lots of ammo, lighting and target heights at different ranges, not to mention that some day's I'm just different ... I need to adjust my sights rather frequently.

[django]

I think is very complicated and the size becomes larger. Or pistol frame size will be enlarged. The gun becomes unstable due to a moving object that held the gun.

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again. So I don't blame Walther LP400 for needing tools to change the setting.

Who agrees with this?

This is one reason I am selling my Walther p400 (Lol) adheres to the teaching style shoot if the direction of the bullet misses the point, we have to immediately adjust rearsight. There are shooters who do not want to do this and more pick the correct body position. I think it's a waste of time in a shooting competition. Practically immediately adjust rearsight. So I liked the gun with air rearsight knob is large enough not need to use the tools to play it.

[therider]

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again.

Wow! How do you pull that off?

With differing lots of ammo, lighting and target heights at different ranges, not to mention that some day's I'm just different ... I need to adjust my sights rather frequently.

Why would do you need to adjust the alignment of front and rear sight? That is a ' geometrical ' matter, is it no? Am I missing somethin?

[RobStubbs]

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again.

Wow! How do you pull that off?

With differing lots of ammo, lighting and target heights at different ranges, not to mention that some day's I'm just different ... I need to adjust my sights rather frequently.

Why would do you need to adjust the alignment of front and rear sight? That is a ' geometrical ' matter, is it no? Am I missing somethin?

Partly because we aim in an area and not at a specific point. So we aim at a place where we get the right amount of light between sights and the bull which is a point decided by our brain and not geometry.

That's the theory but it's what you see in practice that matters. If your shots are falling consistently low then you adjust the sights, likewise high, right or left. I typically move my sights a couple of times in a match, sometimes it may be much more.

Rob.

[rmca]

Why would do you need to adjust the alignment of front and rear sight? That is a ' geometrical ' matter, is it no? Am I missing somethin?

The front a rear sight's position, barrel and point of impact are constant (assuming a constant pellet velocity).

What is not constant is your eye. Have you ever experienced fatigue after a days work where you can't focus the same things at the same distance that you could in the morning? Have a look at the image below an remember that the eye doesn't always hold the same shape.

Hope this helps

[therider]

rmca
I see your point. I too experience fatigue at my eye after about 40 shoot, and this manifests with difficulties in focusing. However my feeling is that as a result the image is not as clear. If I understand correctly you say that I might be also aiming at a different point, without realizing it?

[paw080]

Yesterday I was again in Parma for work and took the opportunity to go and greet Cesare Morini and explain him my latest crazy idea, hoping to convince him (which I did'nt manage to) to modify one MGH1 for me (in which case I would have bought it straight away).

Why not having a grip adjustable in horizontal rotation (better if also in vertical tilt) from the ouside, with screws similar to those used for the rear sight?

I find that once the rear sight is set, I never touch it again. So I don't blame Walther LP400 for needing tools to change the setting.

However I need changing the rotation of the grip often, depending on how stiff my neck muscles are. The stiffer they are, the more I need to move towards a front stance, hence the pistol must rotate to the right. Often during training I would need to adjust it a few times.
Having to remove the grip is not handy. A step screw would be a dream!

Who agrees with this?

Well Rider, I AGREE with you! This external adjustment would be a boon

to me, because my neck does fatigue and I'm Cross-Dominant. Many of my

pistols have grips with built in rotation to compensate for the cross-dominance;

and sometimes I need more or even less rotation.

Tony

Tony

[rmca]

If I understand correctly you say that I might be also aiming at a different point, without realizing it?

Yes. The relationship between the lens and the iris ins't rigid. So if the lens chances a little bit it's shape or position, you will see the candle in a different way even though it never changed place.

The way your eye captures an image is dictated by the lens (it's shape and position) and it's distance to the retina, to put it very simplistic. All this is inside a "ball" that isn't rigid. It changes with a number of factors, including fatigue, dehydration, temperature etc...

This applies to your sights in the same way, and it will result in you making a group that's consistent to the left/right, up/down or a combination of both. When that happens, click the rear sight and problem solved. That´s why you have a 15 minute preparation and sighting time.

I'm not a doctor and I'm sure there are others out there that can explain this with much more detail, but you get the picture :)

Hope this helps

[northpaw]

Why not having a grip adjustable in horizontal rotation ....

However I need changing the rotation of the grip often, Having to remove the grip is not handy. A step screw would be a dream!

Been there, done that. Well, at least Matchguns has.
Just turn the gripbolt a couple turns anticlockwice, then you may adjust the grip horisontally several degrees. Removal of grip not necessary.
Applies to the models MG1, MG1E, MG2, MG2E, MG2RF, MG2RFE, MG4, MG4E, MG5, MG5E.

[jbshooter]

Also done by putting a Rink grip on a Walther SSP. Adjustable stop screws left/right and up/down.

[therider]

Also done by putting a Rink grip on a Walther SSP. Adjustable stop screws left/right and up/down.

This is interesting.
Is it a feature of Rink grips, or the way they are built allows for such a modification? What is an adjustable stop screw exactly? Is it like the one used for the rear sight?

[therider]

Been there, done that. Well, at least Matchguns has.
Just turn the gripbolt a couple turns anticlockwice, then you may adjust the grip horisontally several degrees. Removal of grip not necessary.
Applies to the models MG1, MG1E, MG2, MG2E, MG2RF, MG2RFE, MG4, MG4E, MG5, MG5E.

This was my idea, loosen slightly the grip bolt and then adjust. However I would like the adjustment screws to be accessible without tools from the outside. In the case of Matchguns pistols I guess that you have to slide the tools in between grip and body to access the screws, right? Or did you modify them?
In the case of MGH1, the horizontal rotation screws are at the very top too, and I guess it is easy to slide a tool. Also it is just on screw, passing from side to side...so perfect for what we are talking about.
One option could be to put an axial bearing, like those adopted in lathes, so that one does not need to loosen the grip bolt to be able to turn the grip.

[therider]

Also done by putting a Rink grip on a Walther SSP. Adjustable stop screws left/right and up/down.

Would be interesting to see some pictures. :-)

[northpaw]

In the case of Matchguns pistols I guess that you have to slide the tools in between grip and body to access the screws, right? Or did you modify them?

No modification. Just turn gripbolt some, then the small hexbolt is accessible, and can be adjusted easily.

Also it is just on screw, passing from side to side...so perfect for what we are talking about.

Yes.

[DFWdude]

External adjustment features might also depend on the discipline... an extra knob on a Free Pistol would not be a problem. But on the AP in your example, any knob long enough to be grippable might run afoul of the rules when the pistol is placed in the control box.

Morini didn't like your idea possibly because there is more to designing a grip than fitting the shooter. He might have been thinking of the depth measurement in the control box (42 x 20 x 5 cms) as you spoke to him. The OEM Morini grip on my Steyr fills the control box with only 1/8" to spare... without any rotation considered.