Feedback on a Pardini K12 sought....

therider · Post by **therider** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:40 pm

Hi guys, I joined yesterday and made a post in which I enquire also about K12.....
I am now delaying my first pistol till after Xmas holidays and I go to Lido di Camaiore to see a k12.... I could not find anybody with it.

I saw it 2 weeks ago in München at the World Cup final, but at that time I thought that it was too heavy.....now, after reading so many oosupitive comments I need to have a second look at it.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:36 pm

Too heavy? Mine weighs 998 grams with a filled cylinder. The Steyr LP10e is said to weigh 968. 30 grams isn't a big difference. Besides which if you watch WC events you might notice that most LP10e users have 2 tungsten weights in place, with the odd shooter even using 3. Don't really see any Pardini users with weights... or perhaps I didn't notice. About 1kg seems to be ideal for AP. I actually added weight when competing with my K10 but when my hold steadiness improved enough I stopped using that.

The K12 trigger is excellent. The anti-recoil mass works very well, rendering a dead solid shot with no significant muzzle rise as compared to the slight vertical flip of the K10. But it does come down to which pistol you are most comfortable shooting...

JiriK · Post by **JiriK** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:41 pm

I just came home from a trip to another town.
Finnish importer of Pardini is there. Looked at K12, with M and L grips.

L was surely big enough for my hand.
M size has better shape (slightly too short in finger length) but the palm support had to be removed to make that grip fit in my hand.

I seem to have a fat hand with quite short fingers.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:28 pm

So use the large grip and carve away a bit at a time until it's a great fit. Take days and weeks doing this, testing extensively with every small change. Easy to take wood off, and putty works but isn't as satisfying as an all-wood grip, so try not to go too far.

therider · Post by **therider** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:31 pm

Gerard,
I had missed your reply. May be the feeling I had was of the pistol "pulling" forward, rathere than being heavy ( I am a newbie). This could be the reason why you see nobody adding weights. Yes some lp10 users add weights, mostly at the muzzle. May be these are the shooters who prefer a pistol pulling forwards and then this means that lp10 dos not pull, I.e. is well balanced. At least these is my feeling and on this respect LP400 is even better. What do you think?
Regretfully I have ordered a LP10e without trying the k12... At Lido di Camaiore they told me that I could only try the pistol dry and my dealer in Munich does not plan ordering one... pity... I hope I don't regret

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:36 pm

I do not understand what is meant by the pistol "pulling forward." I have only experienced a forwards/downwards reaction in pistols of the classic Webleys type, where the piston is driven towards the shooter well above the hand and the resulting motion of the pistol is a forward/downward arc of several millimeters, more or less, depending on the strength of the spring.

I'm sure you will enjoy the Steyr. A lot of air pistol competitors have great experiences with that pistol.

therider · Post by **therider** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:21 am

Gerard,
Sorry for being not clear. How pulling forward I meant that the centre of gravity in the K12 is more towards the front as compared to lp10 and lp400
, or at least this is my feeling. That is probably why you see Lp10 users putting weights at the end of barrel whereas you do not see k12 users doing that.
However somewhere I read that having the centre of gravity towards the muzzle is good. Personally I do not like it .

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:06 pm

I am often confused by these sorts of statements regarding 'centre of gravity' or 'balance' of a pistol. Many in various forums claim that such and such a pistol puts the centre 'in the hand' which is patently absurd, as no pistol has its centre of balance in the hand. At least no pistol I've seen. In the case of my K12, putting it on top of a 1/2" steel rod running perpendicular to the barrel I find the pistol balances perfectly at the front edge of the pistol frame, just at the point where the cylinder mount meets the black frame. This is well ahead of the trigger. Mine has a grip of my own making but the overall weight of the pistol is within 3 grams of stock weight so no difference there. An individual's subjective 'sense' of a given pistol's balance is rather un-useful in comparing pistols. Why not just put a Steyr on a narrow piece of metal - a pen on top of a small food tin would work - and see where the point of balance is and compare?

therider · Post by **therider** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Gerard is right... I will run the 'balance' test! :-)

brent375hh · Post by **brent375hh** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:24 pm

My LP10 with large grip and no weights balances where the regulator is attached to the frame, or about 2mm forward of where the barrel is attached.

JiriK · Post by **JiriK** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:04 pm

I ordered K12 last week and received it this monday. Two visits to shooting range & 190 shots fired. Nice :)

Grips seem to differ a bit, I remember testing the M and L grips at a finnish store. Size M was way too narrow to be usable in my hand, but better shape than that L. So I ordered with L grip. The L grip I received is quite good fit to my hand but instead of carving it needs material added on some places.

Have you tested, what pellets these pistol prefer?
I know every barrel is different and pellet lots vary, but first competition is this saturday and I don´t have time to test pellets before it. Will go to shooting range tomorrow too, but I need to use that time to get used to a new pistol. I have JSB, Gehmann, RWS meisterkugeln, Geco, Excite pellets..

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:22 pm

Any decent pellet through that pistol will out-shoot your skill level, no matter if you're the best AP shooter in the world. Any difference in accuracy between all but the worst pellets can be measured in a couple of millimetres at 10 metres, so just pick a pellet and sight in the pistol and focus on your shooting plan.

thirdwheel · Post by **thirdwheel** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:48 pm

I agree with Gerard, use the pellets you have and focus on getting shooting right for you. I wasted too much time messing with pellets and was the accuracy that important at my level anyway. Glad you like the K12 - what a superb trigger. I cannot put mine down, the grip is growing on me and I'm evaluating what needs to be tweeked as to it's shape.

Best cheers
George

JiriK · Post by **JiriK** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:00 pm

Did a brief bench test today after a 40 shot club match.

Yep. Even the worst pellets give "10" every time.
Have to say, my K12 doesn´t seem to like "Excite" pellets.

Group photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8tcnm8k15qj0lbx/IGAe1Ej_qp

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:24 pm

Some of the pellets you tested are unfamiliar to me. I CAN tell you that in my vise testing some lots of RWS Basic produced exceptional accuracy, sometimes beating "full match" pellets at three times the price.

You may as well go cheap.

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:53 am

I have a Morini 162EI. Really hadn't shot a lot of airpistol because I had been concentrating on 2 rifle events and sport pistol and could never get anything going with air until recently. Pardini loaned me a .22 that I was mainly considering over my Morini because I wanted an electric trigger. Also loaned me a K12 to try. Didn't have much time to try the K12 since I was at the OTC working on sport pistol but with less than 30 shots of the K12, I ordered one and am sticking with the Morini 22 (since Pardini is no longer selling an elec trigger 22 as well as being broke and not giving the Pardini 22 a tryout like I should have- had Emil's gun and couldn't see the skinny front sight and wasn't going to mess with his trigger).
I figured something out while crosstraining with airpistol (thanks Mike) and had a bit of luck and success finally so airpistol is a priority now.

The K12 specifically seemed to have a huge advantage due to it's lack of recoil. I think it will help me in calling shots and not anticipating shots due to recoil. Will see if it actually does what I think. I do know that the 30 shots I took gave me the same scores as the Morini that had matched pellets, plenty of use by me, and a grip that actually fit. I figured if I could do the same with an out of the box K12, it couldn't hurt and can only get better.
The weight of my Morini short and K12 long seems to be about the same but I haven't weighed the K12. Think the weight is about the same most likely because of the electronics in my Morini grip.

The K12 feels a little nose heavy to me but I have been shooting a short so that would make sense. Also my gun also had a lot of weight in the grip so that would also come into play with that feeling I believe.

Even though my cm22 has a large grip, my 162ei has a medium. I'm kinda in between. I had Alex send me a large and a medium grip with my K12 and will send one back to him next week when he gets back home.

Have only tried a LP10 once and I didn't like it at all. I had only been shooting air pistol for 4 or 5 months at that point and had only been shooting a Morini. Can't remember why I didn't like the LP10 but remember I did not like it. Was delivering a couple to the Brazilian team at a match here in the US so gave it a try. Probably didn't like it because it just felt so different than what I was used to. When I first bought my Morini 162EI, I picked up all the different guns and dry fired them and couldn't tell the difference between one or the other so went with the one that was $500 cheaper in electric which seems to be more desireable when reselling.

I do like my Morini and had no plans of changing but the K12 just feels great. Both the recoil and the trigger which I really haven't talked about.

Not sure what to say about the trigger since I have only experienced the 162 electric. Always swore by the electric because it is just plain convienant when dryfiring. The K12 trigger feels awesome right out of the box. I guess since I was primarily giving the Pardini 22 a tryout, I had that price stuck in my head when I decided to order the K12. That basically means I decided on switching to the K12 when I thought it was $400 more than it really was. Try one out if you get a chance. I've seen a lot of people in the US have switched to this gun and I don't believe it has anything to do with the relationship with the US distributor and USA shooting. Vlad and Alex and Emil will help any shooter regardless of the brand they are shooting and I don't believe the top shooters in the US/World would change to a different gun it they didn't think it would be just as good if not better. I know I wouldn't.

Leon · Post by **Leon** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:17 pm

I went from a 162EI Short to the K12 and have no regrets at all. They do weight about the same but the K12 has a slightly front heavy bias. And the K12 trigger leaves the electronic 162 trigger for dead...

USMC0802 · Post by **USMC0802** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:01 am

I agree 100% with both of the observations from Leon. After reading about the grip work from C Morini and being able to open up the hand and still hold the gun with a professionally fit grip, I am hoping to alleviate the slight muzzle heaviness difference or just get used to it. Sure I will get used to it. Can't be any heavier than any other long air pistol that most people shoot. It is not bad though. Just feels different than the short Morini as you would expect. Was wondering if adding any weight to the bottom or some part of the grip would help counteract this feeling until I get used to it.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:14 am

The K12 is also available in a short barrel version. 80 grams lighter ( all at the front ) shorter barrell, otherwise identical.

boatschool02 · Post by **boatschool02** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:44 pm

Excellent feedback to prospective buyers.
Hoping to purchase a K12 Junior this week.
I'm shooting a Morini 162ei with the front sight all the way back.
Anyone consider or actually order the full size pistol with shorter air cylinder(s)? (Is muzzle weight or total sight radius the bigger contributor to sight alignment stability?)
Any K12 owners in southern California?
Thanks,
Luke