Hello Everybody,
Thanks for your interesting contributions. I am new here and I touched the first pistol 2 months ago and I am shooting 370. I need to buy my first pistol as I have size M hand but with very long fingers and therefore the old FWB P30 of the club does not fit my hand.
I have been reading comments and suggestions in here with a lot of interest.
I have a few questions.
1) I have benefitted of the great service Walther offers (at least in Germany) and rented a pistol for evaluation purposes. I took the LP400 carbon. I love the light weight and balance. Among the pistols I have been evaluating it gives me the impression that it is the least pulling down on the front.
Also I finally manage to follow through the shot. It could be that I made progress (I only shot once a week), however I really think that it is the merit of the pistol. In fact I tried the steyr LP10 and LP10E and after shooting I see that the muzzle moves (not if I shoot dry). With the LP400 is always absolute stillness!
Can this be due to the absence of the 3 holes on the barrel which all other pistols have? Or is it a superior absorber?
However, I hate the trigger of LP400. I have been playing with it for hours, I managed to improve it the way I like, but still I had to move a lot in the second stage and also use a lot of force. So I cannot manage to get a surprise shot with it.
Also the the blade forsight and notch rearsight do not appear neat and sharp to me. On the other hand I find incredibly sharp those of FWB P30 and also LP10.
Any comment?
2) Steyr.
I love the trigger...great surprise shot, without having to move the finger a lot in the second stage and modest increase in force. Balance and weight I find good, nearly as good as Lp400.
However I get better results with lp10. Can it be that a bit more pull on the front is beneficial?
3) steyr Lp10e
The griff is incredibly "thick" as compared to the mechanical version and I have the feeling that my hand cannot grip it!
Can it be routed to slim it down? Or the electronics inside does not allow it?
I am surprised nobody complains about this!
3) what about Pardini k12?
Any idea how the trigger compares to Lp10?
Any idea regarding the recoil/flip of the barrel? Is it as good as Lp400 looks to me? Or is it more like LP10?
4) has anybody tried the matchguns mgh1 hybryd?
Thanks for you educated opinions!
questions on various Olympic air pistols
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3) LP10E - which size grip was on the one you tried? There is quite a difference from the extra small to extra large size grip.
On muzzle rise on LP10 or LP10E - that will depend greatly on the grip fitting and your hold/hand position, also if the absorber is adjusted properly or not. My LP10E doesn't move at all on follow through and my LP50 just moves a touch (if at all) with the advance of the magazine.
All of the AP that you listed are great! Go with the one that fits you best.
Dave
On muzzle rise on LP10 or LP10E - that will depend greatly on the grip fitting and your hold/hand position, also if the absorber is adjusted properly or not. My LP10E doesn't move at all on follow through and my LP50 just moves a touch (if at all) with the advance of the magazine.
All of the AP that you listed are great! Go with the one that fits you best.
Dave
Certified Safety Instructor: Rifle & Pistol
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Ben Franklin
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Ben Franklin
Dave, thanks for you advice.
With lp10 even XL grip was too small (still my fingers were too long), just becoming longer as I have 90mm wide palm (so a perfect M).
However with the LP10e I had the feeling that I was trying to strangle a bull with one small hand!
Your explanation for the muzzle movement pushes me towards lp10e, as that is my only concern.... Provided I can slim down the grip!
With lp10 even XL grip was too small (still my fingers were too long), just becoming longer as I have 90mm wide palm (so a perfect M).
However with the LP10e I had the feeling that I was trying to strangle a bull with one small hand!
Your explanation for the muzzle movement pushes me towards lp10e, as that is my only concern.... Provided I can slim down the grip!
Rover, I did consider buying a used lp10, but I gave up. I would not be able to evaluate the conditions of the gun and this is not ideal for a "precision" instrument. Moreover I understand that all produces modify quite often the design to fix problems and going through the history of changes would not be easy for me. Therefore I don't think it is worth saving 300 euros for having such a risk and a 6-10 yo pistol.
As I said at the club I can use an old FWB P30, and I am at about 340.
However whenever I try New lp10 of friends I am over 92..... So why wait?
As I said at the club I can use an old FWB P30, and I am at about 340.
However whenever I try New lp10 of friends I am over 92..... So why wait?
Loosely translated I'd say "Free beer for old crocks". Total ageism; free beer for all crocks would be better.william wrote:I'm trying to decipher this. Something about a funerary structure [bier], an animal's coat [fur] and spaniels [cockers]. The remainder [frei, alte] appear to be German. Could it be an attempt at bilingual humor? Man weiß nicht.Rover wrote:Frei bier fur alte cockers!
Vielen Dank, Tim.
Bad spelling, bad grammar.... Why not just say it auf Englisch?
"Old crocks"? Not hardly! I can just hear (Herr Doktor) my high school German teacher, having received Rover's post from a student: "I never realized English was so close to German!"Loosely translated I'd say "Free beer for old crocks"
Bad spelling, bad grammar.... Why not just say it auf Englisch?
I was waiting for you to post a reply with the EXACT words. Bingo. I do kind of expect you to mention the FWB2.Rover wrote:Buy an old CO2 pistol cheap. Shoot it for a few years; then you'll have an idea what you need/want.
Then if you're not winning, it's not because of the gun.
Although I would be more impressed with you suggest FWB90, or any SSP.
However, he can still buy a LP1 or LP10 in CO2 form. Perhaps if he can find something like that he can have his cake and eat it.
I don't understand why you guys want to deprive Der alte Cocker of his free beer.
And yes, it should be, "Freibier fur Alte Cockers." (with an umlaut over the "U".)
I'm sorry...I just realized when you said you "were over ninety-two", you were talking about your score and not your age. Have a beer anyway.
And yes, it should be, "Freibier fur Alte Cockers." (with an umlaut over the "U".)
I'm sorry...I just realized when you said you "were over ninety-two", you were talking about your score and not your age. Have a beer anyway.
That is quite a strange jump, from about 63/100 to 92/100 just by changing to a different pistol. Sort of sounds like maybe something is very wrong with your LP400 to be getting such poor scores. You say it is rock solid, no muzzle flip, so my guess would be a poorly finished barrel crown. Have you examined this? I can't think what else would account for a 30 point per card jump from a Walther to a Steyr with an ill-fitting grip.
I'll speak to the experience I have.
Take it with a pinch of salt - i've only been shooting for 18 months but I love guns and try to shoot every new one I come across. To state my bias i'm a Morini airpistol fanboy.
1) Walther LP400: Both people I know who own a Walther Carbon have had trouble setting up the trigger just right. On closer observation I decided that the sear overlap and angle of drag/break wasn't efficient and not adjustable. It's kind of all or nothing. It is a new design and I would steer clear of it.
2) Steyr: Weight is adjustable. More weight on the front naturally means more inertia to resist forces at muzzle which will make it more forgiving with bad shots. Consider weight and balance a moot point imho.
3) Grip on the LP10e: Doesn't seem too fat to me - probably could slim the side of your palm down to a certain extent.
I think the problem doesn't lie with the bulge but rather the absence of space around the heel of the palm - fill that out and I think you will find it fits better.
4) Pardini: No idea - I have no experience.
5) MGH1: Breech design not allowed under the rules of ISSF as they are written with regard to flags. Might be a null point for you but if you want to compete at a top level (international) then you might face problems and at that point the last thing you want are hassles from judges.
That said they shoot nicely and are very nicely made - don't agree with CMs breech design though. Almost just different for the point of being different - can't think of any efficiencies related to it.
The MG-1 is a good pistol - they are still available in a revised model (can't remember the designation) but it's essentially the same as the MG-1 but with a longer tank with a manometer (MGH1 tank) and a MGH1 compensator. Might be worth a look?
So here is what I think - I love the sights on the FWB P30 and Steyr LP10 and the trigger on the LP10e is great and has proven reliable.
TL;DR: Get the Steyr LP10e with a Rink Grip that has been personally fitted by Mr. Rink (seeing you're in Germany).
Take it with a pinch of salt - i've only been shooting for 18 months but I love guns and try to shoot every new one I come across. To state my bias i'm a Morini airpistol fanboy.
1) Walther LP400: Both people I know who own a Walther Carbon have had trouble setting up the trigger just right. On closer observation I decided that the sear overlap and angle of drag/break wasn't efficient and not adjustable. It's kind of all or nothing. It is a new design and I would steer clear of it.
2) Steyr: Weight is adjustable. More weight on the front naturally means more inertia to resist forces at muzzle which will make it more forgiving with bad shots. Consider weight and balance a moot point imho.
3) Grip on the LP10e: Doesn't seem too fat to me - probably could slim the side of your palm down to a certain extent.
I think the problem doesn't lie with the bulge but rather the absence of space around the heel of the palm - fill that out and I think you will find it fits better.
4) Pardini: No idea - I have no experience.
5) MGH1: Breech design not allowed under the rules of ISSF as they are written with regard to flags. Might be a null point for you but if you want to compete at a top level (international) then you might face problems and at that point the last thing you want are hassles from judges.
That said they shoot nicely and are very nicely made - don't agree with CMs breech design though. Almost just different for the point of being different - can't think of any efficiencies related to it.
The MG-1 is a good pistol - they are still available in a revised model (can't remember the designation) but it's essentially the same as the MG-1 but with a longer tank with a manometer (MGH1 tank) and a MGH1 compensator. Might be worth a look?
So here is what I think - I love the sights on the FWB P30 and Steyr LP10 and the trigger on the LP10e is great and has proven reliable.
TL;DR: Get the Steyr LP10e with a Rink Grip that has been personally fitted by Mr. Rink (seeing you're in Germany).
ROVER, Ich bin KEINE alte cocker!!!
Gerard, I shot average 85/100 with FWB P30 ( not 63/100, and not with LP400).
:-)
My feeling with LP400 is strange. I love the absolute stillness, but my results (with the the exception of a single series of eight 10.4 in a row) , are really bad....about 70/100.
SamEEE, thanks for your input on Lp400 trigger....at least i am not the only one!
I absolute agree with your comment regarding sight and trigger of FWB P30 and LP10.
I have a feeling that your analysis on the heel of the palm not having space with LP10e might be right. Now that you said it I think i can recall that the bad feeling was in that part of my hand! I will go back to the shop and look at it carefully. If that can be routed, then I have my gun!
I have been told, even here in Germany, that Cesare Morini is still the best with grips. And I called Match Guns and they confirmed that he is ready to help even if I purchase a pistol from a different producer. I am Italian and very often close to Parma, so I will pay Cesare a visit....probably this week.
MGH1
I was at World Cup final 2 weeks ago in Munich. Mexican shooter Zavala used this pistol. She was first at the qualifications. So I guess this issue has been solved completely
Gerard, I shot average 85/100 with FWB P30 ( not 63/100, and not with LP400).
:-)
My feeling with LP400 is strange. I love the absolute stillness, but my results (with the the exception of a single series of eight 10.4 in a row) , are really bad....about 70/100.
SamEEE, thanks for your input on Lp400 trigger....at least i am not the only one!
I absolute agree with your comment regarding sight and trigger of FWB P30 and LP10.
I have a feeling that your analysis on the heel of the palm not having space with LP10e might be right. Now that you said it I think i can recall that the bad feeling was in that part of my hand! I will go back to the shop and look at it carefully. If that can be routed, then I have my gun!
I have been told, even here in Germany, that Cesare Morini is still the best with grips. And I called Match Guns and they confirmed that he is ready to help even if I purchase a pistol from a different producer. I am Italian and very often close to Parma, so I will pay Cesare a visit....probably this week.
MGH1
I was at World Cup final 2 weeks ago in Munich. Mexican shooter Zavala used this pistol. She was first at the qualifications. So I guess this issue has been solved completely
Sorry, I misunderstood it when you wrote in the original post "and I am shooting 370" while in the same post referring to borrowing a carbon LP400, presumably the same pistol with which you are shooting 370/600... which is actually lower than 62/100, not even 63. Seems somehow I did not understand (and still don't) this wording, but no matter. 70/100 with the LP400 and 92/100 with a borrowed Steyr from the same shooter still seems a bizarre range of results. My scores are practically identical with a Pardini K10, K12, and my old Baikal 46m - all between 91 and 93/100, even though these pistols each shoot quite differently in several ways.therider wrote: Gerard, I shot average 85/100 with FWB P30 ( not 63/100, and not with LP400).
Thanks Gerard. I get the 340/400 with the old FWB P30 of the club. With lp10 I go to about 370/400.therider wrote: As I said at the club I can use an old FWB P30, and I am at about 340.
However whenever I try New lp10 of friends I am over 92..... So why wait?
I guess that this depends on the fact that I first took a pistol in my hands two months ago. Although I am trying to improve my technique with the help of people at the club and reading training advices on the web, I am still very much just using my feeling. No grip fits my long fingers, so I guess that there is a lot of influence of the grip of each pistol on the results. This might explain the huge difference.....or may be my poor technique greatly benefits from the absorber of Lp10.