2014 WCF The ending of Toz-35

[conradin]

The "all star" event saw almost everyone uses a Morini. Only two Toz-35 made it and Zlatic came in last. The two persons who did not qualify did not use Morini IIRC. Which makes me think is it worth it or Issakov to continue to be Walther's "factory shooter" and use the Haemmerli FP60. He was winning some matches while using the Morini.

Is the Toz-35 demise exaggerated, or the trend is going to continue as less and less repair parts are available, and people also get used to the recoil of the Morini and find it not as bad as the conventional FP like the Toz-35.

Finally, everyone uses Eley Red Box, yet my personal, Morini is not too happy with it, Any advice? The pistol, a bad patch, or I just cleaning?

[Rover]

"everyone uses Eley Red Bo, yet my persona, Morini is not too happy with it"

How can you tell?

[rmca]

Finally, everyone uses Eley Red Bo, yet my persona, Morini is not too happy with it, Any advice? The pistol, a bad patch, or I just cleaning?

Not happy feeding it? Clean it.
Not happy shooting it? It´s always the shooter's fault. No matter what ammo.

The TOZ35 was made a long time ago. It has it's strengths and weaknesses as every other pistol. It's natural that with time passing few and fewer will appear at a top level competition. It does not mean that the TOZ35 can´t shoot anymore...

[GOVTMODEL]

Finally, everyone uses Eley Red Box, yet my personal, Morini is not too happy with it, Any advice? The pistol, a bad patch, or I just cleaning?

Every batch of TENEX is unique, as is every barrel. To determine that a particular batch of TENEX doesn't shoot well in your barrel is an indication that you should batch test ammunition and find a batch that DOES shoot well in your barrel.

That's why ELEY and Lapua have Customer Ranges.

[renzo]

Anyway, in FP what counts is the ergonomics of your pistol, the mechanical precision can be put aside (together with ammo objective accuracy) until you're WAY over 540 and trying to put your "9"s into the ten ring, as it's usually much better than what most shooters can hold.

Thus, I refrained from using TOZ 35's because of my short fingers, and that has nothing to do with its usefulness as a precision tool.

My PB of 543 was shot using domestic target (not match) ammo. Could I've gained some points by shooting Midas?? Probably.

But I'd better not have shot TWO sixes and THREE sevens that day (17 less points in only five shots), it would've been easier if I was to achieve 550!!!

In FP, if you keep your shots in the "8" ring (a feat ANY ammo can achieve, no matter its quality) you'll bring home a lot of metal...........................

[Ulrich Eichstädt]

The "all star" event saw almost everyone uses a Morini. Only two Toz-35 made it and Zlatic came in last.

"Zlatic came in last..." of the eight finalists, which makes a difference: He will be officially ranked as place 8 in the WCF, that's a lot. And he started the final with three 8's, which was the main reason why he was the first to leave with 1.3 points behind. In the elimination match he scored 559, which is also not so bad. He has also won two World Cups in Free Pistol this year (Munich, Ft Benning) with his TOZ.

It has been the World Cup FINAL, which means that in theory the best 10 shooters worldwide in each discipline based on their successes in 2013 travelled to Munich for the "final final". Practically it's quite different: in some disciplines it wasn't the best 10 shooters but the 10 who had time to participate. For example the indian female air pistol shooter Heena Sidhu only shot in Munich, because three better ranked ladies preferred to go shopping instead or whatever (but Sidhu took her chance and won with 5 points ahead against at least a handful of the worlds best female pistol shooters).

The reason for holding a competition like this with immense costs for all participating nations is in doubt since years. In former years more than now with the new final rules. Before the participants shot their 6 10-shot-series to determine, in which order they would stand for the last ten shots of the final...

Anyway; I don't believe, that the TOZ-35 will be out of the ISSF circus now. Of course the majority shoots with the excellent Morini pistols, which benefit mainly from their electronic triggers - the rest of the gun is, sorry, not much different from a TOZ (and also a 40 year old design).

If somebody creates an electronic trigger unit to replace that from the TOZ (which is no big thing), he possibly could make a fortune out of it. Or at least sell to some of the maybe 1000 TOZ-owners worldwide, of which most don't shoot on international level (which shows a problem of distributing the module). The bad thing really is, that TOZ-owners slowly run out of spare parts, even if some collected a lot from unrepairable "wrecks" - that may be the reason why the TOZ will disappear some day (apart from no Baikal service at competitions, no new guns, no grid girls :) ). But I would bet nevertheless, that there might be somebody winning with a non-Morini FP one or the other competition.

Like Melentjew with his MC 55, with his now 33 year old world record (and, by the way, the World Record in Standard Pistol is now 40 years old: 584 by Eric Buljung (USA) in 1983, shot with a... Hämmerli 208, if I remember correctly). Even though the technique in pistol design has made a real revolution in the last decades (with maximum barrel length, adjustable grip angle, electronic trigger, adjustable depth and width of the rear sight), no today shooter seems to be able to break these fabulous results. Funny, hm?

[David Levene]

Like Melentjew with his MC 55, with his now 33 year old world record (and, by the way, the World Record in Standard Pistol is now 40 years old: 584 by Eric Buljung (USA) in 1983, shot with a... Hämmerli 208, if I remember correctly). Even though the technique in pistol design has made a real revolution in the last decades (with maximum barrel length, adjustable grip angle, electronic trigger, adjustable depth and width of the rear sight), no today shooter seems to be able to break these fabulous results. Funny, hm?

I'm afraid that it's unfair to compare the Free Pistol and Standard Pistol records.

Free Pistol shooters have many opportunities to break the record.

Standard Pistol shooters normally only have 2 opportunities every 4 years to break that record; the World Championships and their Continental Championship.

Given the above, and that 50m Pistol is an Olympic discipline and therefore more likely to have funded full time athletes, the fact that the record has lasted so long is IMHO much more impressive than the Standard Pistol record.

[Ulrich Eichstädt]

I didn't intend to compare both totally different disciplines but honor Eric Buljungs big success 30 years ago. I just saw his result while checking the world records for Free Pistol at the ISSF-website. Sorry if that could be misunderstood.

But anyway, even though there are a lot more chances to set a new FP world record (4-5 WC/WCF per year), nobody even came near the 581 the last years, most are 5-10 points below. And the world cup final is now a complete indoor competition, also the elimination is shot in the final hall - no wind, no sun, no rain.

Ah, a lot to think about for conradin and his crystal ball ;)

[David M]

I believe that one reason some of the old records stand is in the .22 ammo.
Since the change away from the lead compound primers .22 ammo in not as accurate as it used to be, and more malfunctions.
Seems to have changed over the last 30 yrs.

[renzo]

I don't think ammo has nothingto do with FP scores.

Today cartridges have ample accuracy to stay forever (not only ten shot tests) in the 10-ring, and the best will keep the X-ring, but the human factor is paramount.

I don't know why (Igor- the forum member we know as "ruig") assembled a table showing top level scores in FP in the 70's and how they decreased from the Moscow Olympics on.

I presume (and may be wrong) that with the current emphasis in the finals, training routines will allocate more time to practising them, which would prove detrimental to quali scores.

In our FP National Championships two weeks ago, the eight classified shooter, with a score of 18 (eighteen) points less than the first, crowned himself Champion.

[j-team]

It's a subject everyone likes to avoid, so at the risk of being accused of being motivated by some kind of envy, I'll add that now days drug testing is more accurate.

Just saying...

[Spencer]

I believe that one reason some of the old records stand is in the .22 ammo.
Since the change away from the lead compound primers .22 ammo in not as accurate as it used to be, and more malfunctions.
Seems to have changed over the last 30 yrs.

Lead compounds (Lead Styphnate, Lead Azide) are being phased out since the 1990s.

Many old timers maintain that it was the earlier mercury compound primers (phased out in most countries by 1980) that produced the best accuracy.

If (!) one could get some of the top grade Russian .22LR ammunition (not for export), it would be interesting to find out what the priming compound is.

[RobStubbs]

It can have nothing to do with ammo accuracy. If prone rifle shooters can hit the bull 60-times out of 60-shots, and batch tested ammo can easily hold their x-ring then the ammo is easily capable of staying inside the 10-ring, it is after all 20-times bigger for FP.

Rob.

[SamEEE]

Is the Toz-35 demise exaggerated, or the trend is going to continue as less and less repair parts are available, and people also get used to the recoil of the Morini and find it not as bad as the conventional FP like the Toz-35.

Way I look at it is that there isn't any other choice really for a new 50m Pistol. Not much wrong with the Toz other than being a bit agricultural - they look great with a Rink grip.

As for ammunition - you might see some gains if you're blasting nothing below 530s.

I like the PGP-75 Pardini. Also featured in shot: my trousers.



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