Does anyone have direct experience of how the Pardini K12 recoil absorption mechanism compares to the Steyr LP10?
For example, is the the recoil of K!2 comparable to the LP10 , better or worse?
Pardini K12 recoil absorption?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
Pardini Recoil Suppressor
You asked about experience with the Pardini Recoil Suppressor-- I have a K12 that I just purchased and have put around 500 rds through it. IMHO it suppresses far better than the Steyr I'm sure this answer will probably start a "flame" session,but you're asking for opinions.
The suppressor is so smooth that I can already tell a big difference in "follow through" skill. The suppressor is adjustable, but from the factory, mine seemed perfect. Hope that helps.
The suppressor is so smooth that I can already tell a big difference in "follow through" skill. The suppressor is adjustable, but from the factory, mine seemed perfect. Hope that helps.
Thanks Tycho. I'm quite happy with my K10 for now. It's quite customized, especially the one-off grip but also some carving of the aluminum where my finger was rubbing above and behind the trigger. And I opened out the compensator sort of like that of the K12 but more so. Still, I can probably get $1,300 or so for it with the old Rink grip should I decide to upgrade to the K12. Nothing I've modified has harmed the pistol's functionality and it's all neatly executed. Anyway, it's good to hear the K12 is working nicely. Thanks for sharing.
-
tirpassion
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:53 am
If I am not wrong, this is an opinion to COUNT specially because it comes from a multiple Commonwealth champion and an olympian, a great shooter I admire... Thanks for your comments Sjung.SJung wrote:Hi
I have used K2, K10 and now I am shooting K12.
Trigger is the best I have seen, it feels like electronic. Absorber is good but cant say what it is compared to LP10 as I have not used LP10 for a long time.
But then in my opinion you don't need an absorber in an Air Pistol.
Now, two of our club members have acquired the K12 already. I will share this information with them and they will certainly be happy.
sincere regards
tirpassion
I absolutely love it ! The trigger is amazing - better in fact than the electronic trigger of my Morini 162EI, which is soon to depart to a new owner.Gerard wrote:So Leon; have you had your K12 long enough yet to have formed any opinions? As it turned out I couldn't resist ... so mine is on the way. Next week if Canada Customs is kind.
Nice grips, very nice balance, very well made. Recoil absorption is spot on - from memory, about the same as my LP10, if not better.
Congratulations on your purchase, you'll really like it.
Seems Rover doesn't approve though... Apparently a huge leap in trigger performance isn't justification enough for moving to the K12 from the K10. Should I feel regret? Nah. Thanks for letting me know Leon, that's one more strong vote for the new trigger mechanism of the K12. Seems that while Pardini is trying to stay relevant with the absorber, their work on the trigger re-design wins out in popular acclaim so far.
Received my K12 yesterday and set to work carving out my custom grip for the extra elements; the lever on the left side and the recoil absorber buffer pad at the rear. The latter is a 5mm deep cutout behind the pistol frame where a 5mm thick foam insert is stuck. I have some similar foam so I carved the thing then glued in a matching piece. It's just a pad to allow the housing and absorber rod to press back slightly behind the frame when cocking. In action the absorber doesn't come anywhere near the foam. I also traded triggers, as mine was highly customized to allow for lateral cant and mounted on an angled armature to have the trigger facing downards about 8 degrees. Feels much more comfortable for me this way.
Some notable differences between the K10 and K12:
- Sight radius has been increased by about 18mm.
- Trigger does indeed feel considerably smoother; I found it very easy to adjust the first stage pressure a little higher, bringing up the total to about 520grams (was about 350grams from Pardini), and it felt much easier to pull without triggering errors/artifacts than with the K10.
- The rear sight blade sits slightly further back from the frame; in my case I had to carve the lip at the back of my grip about 1.5mm deeper rearwards to allow for the trigger blade's vertical sprung movement, otherwise it was jamming where with the K10's blade there was 1mm clearance.
So it's not a matter of swapping out your trusty K10's grip onto the new pistol. Not that the stock Pardini walnut grip isn't nice, it's very well carved and mine comes quite close to a good fit as is. But I prefer a deeper, wider piece of wood in the palm, Russian style from what I've read, as I fatigue with a smaller Rink-style core. And this Pardini grip is a lot like a Rink, except that in the lower part of the hand (behind the pinky finger) it is carved out much more deeply, so the hand goes further 'into' the grip than with a Rink.
The longer sight radius is well over half the increase we were seeing last year at a couple of World Cup matches on pistols used by top Korean shooters - a longer sight blade which I tried for a few months then decided offered no advantage or disadvantage for me, my scores not changing significantly. That was about a 25mm longer radius if memory serves, so this 18mm increase is not insignificant. Of course the front blade can still be brought backwards, about 43.5mm for the K12 - and comparing this to the shorter slot on the K10 it seems the new pistol allows for sights to be about exactly as close together as with the minimum K10 setting.
I've only shot about 30 shots so far (at home, too many interruptions this morning), enough to sight it in roughly and get a dozen or so decent shots in. There was a string of 7 x 10's in a row during that dozen. This on a morning where I was feeling a bit unsteady (I rarely shoot well in the mornings). I got very comfortable, very quickly with the pistol. The recoil absorber is strange at first, like holding a rock and hearing a pistol firing remotely. There is almost no sense of motion, none really, compared to the small but significant backwards and upwards motion of the K10 when fired at similar velocity - the stock K12 came set at about 452fps according to my F1 Shooting Chrony, where I'd been shooting the K10 set to 445fps to keep the recoil lower than Pardini suggests (520fps or so). For the first time in my so far short career I am able to hold my sights aligned on follow-through, instead of watching the slight jump and trying to hold there or bring it back into line. A real treat, and something I'll enjoy getting used to seeing. Since it stays where you point it through the shot I might even develop a better follow-through habit.
So I'm taking it to the club tonight for a proper session. If there's anything worth reporting I'll do that. Otherwise I'll be getting used to the new pistol over the coming weeks and will post when I feel there's something relevant to contribute. For now it just seems like what I'd been expecting is slightly reversed. The trigger is much nicer, but doesn't feel magical, from what I've tried of the electronic Morini trigger on two pistols I think that one feels a bit more crisp. But it's a fine trigger no doubt. And my expectation for the absorber was not quite this amazing. It's a very significant change. For one thing I won't have to adjust my sights slightly low any more.
Some notable differences between the K10 and K12:
- Sight radius has been increased by about 18mm.
- Trigger does indeed feel considerably smoother; I found it very easy to adjust the first stage pressure a little higher, bringing up the total to about 520grams (was about 350grams from Pardini), and it felt much easier to pull without triggering errors/artifacts than with the K10.
- The rear sight blade sits slightly further back from the frame; in my case I had to carve the lip at the back of my grip about 1.5mm deeper rearwards to allow for the trigger blade's vertical sprung movement, otherwise it was jamming where with the K10's blade there was 1mm clearance.
So it's not a matter of swapping out your trusty K10's grip onto the new pistol. Not that the stock Pardini walnut grip isn't nice, it's very well carved and mine comes quite close to a good fit as is. But I prefer a deeper, wider piece of wood in the palm, Russian style from what I've read, as I fatigue with a smaller Rink-style core. And this Pardini grip is a lot like a Rink, except that in the lower part of the hand (behind the pinky finger) it is carved out much more deeply, so the hand goes further 'into' the grip than with a Rink.
The longer sight radius is well over half the increase we were seeing last year at a couple of World Cup matches on pistols used by top Korean shooters - a longer sight blade which I tried for a few months then decided offered no advantage or disadvantage for me, my scores not changing significantly. That was about a 25mm longer radius if memory serves, so this 18mm increase is not insignificant. Of course the front blade can still be brought backwards, about 43.5mm for the K12 - and comparing this to the shorter slot on the K10 it seems the new pistol allows for sights to be about exactly as close together as with the minimum K10 setting.
I've only shot about 30 shots so far (at home, too many interruptions this morning), enough to sight it in roughly and get a dozen or so decent shots in. There was a string of 7 x 10's in a row during that dozen. This on a morning where I was feeling a bit unsteady (I rarely shoot well in the mornings). I got very comfortable, very quickly with the pistol. The recoil absorber is strange at first, like holding a rock and hearing a pistol firing remotely. There is almost no sense of motion, none really, compared to the small but significant backwards and upwards motion of the K10 when fired at similar velocity - the stock K12 came set at about 452fps according to my F1 Shooting Chrony, where I'd been shooting the K10 set to 445fps to keep the recoil lower than Pardini suggests (520fps or so). For the first time in my so far short career I am able to hold my sights aligned on follow-through, instead of watching the slight jump and trying to hold there or bring it back into line. A real treat, and something I'll enjoy getting used to seeing. Since it stays where you point it through the shot I might even develop a better follow-through habit.
So I'm taking it to the club tonight for a proper session. If there's anything worth reporting I'll do that. Otherwise I'll be getting used to the new pistol over the coming weeks and will post when I feel there's something relevant to contribute. For now it just seems like what I'd been expecting is slightly reversed. The trigger is much nicer, but doesn't feel magical, from what I've tried of the electronic Morini trigger on two pistols I think that one feels a bit more crisp. But it's a fine trigger no doubt. And my expectation for the absorber was not quite this amazing. It's a very significant change. For one thing I won't have to adjust my sights slightly low any more.
-
deadeyedick
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:55 pm
- Location: Australia
It turned out the club was closed on Friday, so I've still only managed a couple of brief sessions with the K12 at home. Just figuring out ideal trigger placement today, as the locations for mounting the trigger on the plate are a bit different. There are three tapped holes now instead of the two on the K10, so more options, and as I like my trigger sloped in a couple of ways this offers a bit wider range of placement options for the armature.
Still very much enjoying the 'dead' pistol effect of the absorber. Can't wait until I get a chance to shoot more than 30 or 40 shots in a row... and we're going camping this week, so not for a while... I've been getting some surprisingly small groups of 10 and more shots, size of a dime or so. Just need some hundreds of shots with this thing to stop being nervous about the different feel of the shot, the different trigger feel (almost too easy), and the 'yips' outside those groups ought to settle down.
One complaint so far. And it's minor, something I'll get used to and forget about. But the gap between the breech end of the barrel and the absorber/transfer block housing is 25mm. My thumb when pressing a pellet into the breech is about 37mm to the knuckle. It's getting to be a bit painful banging that knuckle into the block every time. I'll eventually learn to press with my thumb flatter and not bruise the knuckle. Just a habit held over from the similarly barrel-loading Baikal 46m. The K10 has you dropping a pellet into a half-cylindrical channel so a small gap isn't a problem. The K10's problem was more in sometimes forgetting if one had loaded a pellet. No issue there with the K12 at least; the pellet is perfectly visible with the breech open.
Oh, and bits of lead tend to accumulate inside the cone, on the metal and on the O-ring. That's with RWS Hobby. Kind of messy pellets. Good thing I've got a couple of sleeves of better stuff coming next week. Don't know if these little crescents and flecks of lead might harm the seal or not but it seems a small brush in the kit to wipe it clean a couple of times per session might be a good idea. Never saw any lead scraps accumulating in the K10.
------------------------
Finally managed to get to the club last evening and shoot a couple of warm-up targets then a 60 shot scored session. I've been somewhat unsteady lately what with settling into a new-to-me weight training method. Still, when I was able to hold steady enough there were a fair number of 10's. Shot my best score since before injuring my shoulder, a 552. My personal best from 2 years ago was 553, shot twice within a week back then. Then I tore something in my right shoulder doing something slightly stupid with kettle bells... Anyway, it's been without pain for a year or so, and gradually strengthening to where it was before that injury. I've been shooting around 545 lately on good days when my hold is exceptionally stable (about once per week this summer) and averaging overall around 540. A 552, especially on a wobbly day, is exceptional. Going camping for the rest of the week, but next week I'll get out to the club a couple more times and see if this holds with the K12. So far just a hint, but it did feel like I 'bought some points.'
Still very much enjoying the 'dead' pistol effect of the absorber. Can't wait until I get a chance to shoot more than 30 or 40 shots in a row... and we're going camping this week, so not for a while... I've been getting some surprisingly small groups of 10 and more shots, size of a dime or so. Just need some hundreds of shots with this thing to stop being nervous about the different feel of the shot, the different trigger feel (almost too easy), and the 'yips' outside those groups ought to settle down.
One complaint so far. And it's minor, something I'll get used to and forget about. But the gap between the breech end of the barrel and the absorber/transfer block housing is 25mm. My thumb when pressing a pellet into the breech is about 37mm to the knuckle. It's getting to be a bit painful banging that knuckle into the block every time. I'll eventually learn to press with my thumb flatter and not bruise the knuckle. Just a habit held over from the similarly barrel-loading Baikal 46m. The K10 has you dropping a pellet into a half-cylindrical channel so a small gap isn't a problem. The K10's problem was more in sometimes forgetting if one had loaded a pellet. No issue there with the K12 at least; the pellet is perfectly visible with the breech open.
Oh, and bits of lead tend to accumulate inside the cone, on the metal and on the O-ring. That's with RWS Hobby. Kind of messy pellets. Good thing I've got a couple of sleeves of better stuff coming next week. Don't know if these little crescents and flecks of lead might harm the seal or not but it seems a small brush in the kit to wipe it clean a couple of times per session might be a good idea. Never saw any lead scraps accumulating in the K10.
------------------------
Finally managed to get to the club last evening and shoot a couple of warm-up targets then a 60 shot scored session. I've been somewhat unsteady lately what with settling into a new-to-me weight training method. Still, when I was able to hold steady enough there were a fair number of 10's. Shot my best score since before injuring my shoulder, a 552. My personal best from 2 years ago was 553, shot twice within a week back then. Then I tore something in my right shoulder doing something slightly stupid with kettle bells... Anyway, it's been without pain for a year or so, and gradually strengthening to where it was before that injury. I've been shooting around 545 lately on good days when my hold is exceptionally stable (about once per week this summer) and averaging overall around 540. A 552, especially on a wobbly day, is exceptional. Going camping for the rest of the week, but next week I'll get out to the club a couple more times and see if this holds with the K12. So far just a hint, but it did feel like I 'bought some points.'
Sure. For one thing that note about banging my thumb knuckle when loading was silly. I realised a while later that the pellet needs only to be placed loosely into the breech, as the seal will press it firmly into place when pushing down the lever.
I've had only one problem area and that was the absorber, which one day last week didn't work for my first few shots after not firing the pistol for several days (bit of tennis elbow so I've been taking it easy leading up to this weekend's match). The pistol recoiled quite harshly on firing. Then it stopped and shot as normal. It seemed the tungsten weight was not returning after deploying rearwards, that it had become stuck after my previous use and it took a few shots to shake it loose. A few hundred shots since and no trouble. But I will probably dismantle the pistol and investigate soon.
Besides that the pistol has been shooting flawlessly, a very enjoyable experience, and in my opinion a prettier gun than the Steyr. After all, we shoot these things a lot, might as well like what we're looking at so often. The gold anodising is very nice and it seems they've done a better job bluing the barrel than on the K10. But I'm sure the look of the Steyr appeals to many as well.
I've had only one problem area and that was the absorber, which one day last week didn't work for my first few shots after not firing the pistol for several days (bit of tennis elbow so I've been taking it easy leading up to this weekend's match). The pistol recoiled quite harshly on firing. Then it stopped and shot as normal. It seemed the tungsten weight was not returning after deploying rearwards, that it had become stuck after my previous use and it took a few shots to shake it loose. A few hundred shots since and no trouble. But I will probably dismantle the pistol and investigate soon.
Besides that the pistol has been shooting flawlessly, a very enjoyable experience, and in my opinion a prettier gun than the Steyr. After all, we shoot these things a lot, might as well like what we're looking at so often. The gold anodising is very nice and it seems they've done a better job bluing the barrel than on the K10. But I'm sure the look of the Steyr appeals to many as well.