I just received the information below. Does anyone know what is going on that drove these changes?
"QUALIFYING
There are a lot of changes to qualifying, as well as the summer?s National Match. The National Junior Olympic Championship is now only one day (for each sporter and precision) in the 3P Air Rifle National Championships. Each major organization will be represented with their respective match during the 3 days of record firing (CMP, NRA, USAS).
All participants from the State Junior Olympics will be combined into one Nation-wide match and the top 14 teams and 5 individuals will be invited to attend in each class. The additional slots will be filled from the NRA Sectionals and CMP?s Regional Championship.
Scholastic/ club team status is no longer being used for selections
All organizations hope that the new qualification process will help to reach the different types of 3P air rifle clubs and teams across the national by providing additional ways/ types of matches to qualify for this year?s new combined National Championship. The 3P National Championship in July will merge 3 of the major air rifle competitions into one 3 day competition with all the major governing bodies represented. More information can be found here: www.theCMP.org/3P.htm. "
I went to the web page, but there was no additional information.
Shocking changes to National 3P Air Rifle Championships
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
Have you checked the dates of the Southern and Western Regionals used to qualify? They sit right over the the USA Shooting Junior Olympics.
How is USA Shooting going to qualify shooters? That's not even an event for them? They are internationally focused .... not 3PAR.
When this was complained about, the response from the CMP was basically "Sometimes you have to have priorities" ... this is from Orest.
He feels that CMP cannot grow the sport and should not be expected to. (As he stated to the State Junior Directors)
All the issues that have come up over the past few months seems to be tied to that area of the CMP .... don't know how one would get him removed, but if the sport is to grow and not stagnate, he needs to go.
How is USA Shooting going to qualify shooters? That's not even an event for them? They are internationally focused .... not 3PAR.
When this was complained about, the response from the CMP was basically "Sometimes you have to have priorities" ... this is from Orest.
He feels that CMP cannot grow the sport and should not be expected to. (As he stated to the State Junior Directors)
All the issues that have come up over the past few months seems to be tied to that area of the CMP .... don't know how one would get him removed, but if the sport is to grow and not stagnate, he needs to go.
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Maxicooper
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National Three Position Air Rifle Championship
6 – 9 July, Sporter and 11 – 14 July, Precision
The National Three Position Air Rifle Championship will be held in Anniston, Alabama in July. This match will be a combined event with NRA and CMP. Shooters will qualify through their participation in the CMP Regional Matches, State 3PAR Junior Olympic Matches and/or the NRA Sectionals. Each of those three events will qualify 14 teams consisting of 4 members and 1 alternate as well as 5 individuals. A total of 225 shooters in sporter and precision will be invited to attend the national match. Daily awards will be given for each event (CMP, NRA and JO) and an overall championship awards will be given. Please check back for more details on this event and for a list of qualifiers.
Format:
• Day 1 – Practice and Equipment Check
• Days 2 – 4: 3x20 and Finals
• Day 4: Banquet and Award’s Ceremony
Any questions regarding these guidelines or information about the National Air Rifle Match can be directed to CMP at kharrington@thecmp.org or 419-635-2141 ext. 1131.
http://www.odcmp.com/3P/AirRifleChampionship.htm
6 – 9 July, Sporter and 11 – 14 July, Precision
The National Three Position Air Rifle Championship will be held in Anniston, Alabama in July. This match will be a combined event with NRA and CMP. Shooters will qualify through their participation in the CMP Regional Matches, State 3PAR Junior Olympic Matches and/or the NRA Sectionals. Each of those three events will qualify 14 teams consisting of 4 members and 1 alternate as well as 5 individuals. A total of 225 shooters in sporter and precision will be invited to attend the national match. Daily awards will be given for each event (CMP, NRA and JO) and an overall championship awards will be given. Please check back for more details on this event and for a list of qualifiers.
Format:
• Day 1 – Practice and Equipment Check
• Days 2 – 4: 3x20 and Finals
• Day 4: Banquet and Award’s Ceremony
Any questions regarding these guidelines or information about the National Air Rifle Match can be directed to CMP at kharrington@thecmp.org or 419-635-2141 ext. 1131.
http://www.odcmp.com/3P/AirRifleChampionship.htm
Thank you Maxicooper, the added information you provided is useful. I now understand the concept of 75+75+75.
I am starting to form some preliminary opinions:
1. The role of State representation is now eliminated. This is sad because my shooters enjoyed spending time with kids from Hawaii, Idaho, and other states. I fear that in the future the teams from some states will rarely be able to attend, instead you will see teams from NM, GA, NC, PA, and CA dominate the attendance.
2. Due to the limitations mentioned in 1. above, most 4-H Clubs, American Legion teams, and Venturing program teams will be severely limited in their ability to field a top-14 team.
3. Highly skilled individual shooters that are not members of a top-rated team will see their opportunities to participate diminished. For this reason, I object to the 14+5 rule, it should be 12 teams (of 5) +15 individuals.
Another disappointment is the timing of this announcement. Personally, I would have done this much differently. I would have given time and opportunity for all stakeholders to participate in some kind of dialog, and then given everyone at least 6 months before implementation. The perfect example of our current state of affairs is mentioned by jhmartin, his shooters can't participate in the NRA sectional match because of scheduling conflicts with Colorado Springs JO.
I find the implementation of this change unsavory; it reminds me of the way Nancy Pelosi explained Obamacare. I sincerely hope that the leadership of the CMP, NRA, and USAS step up to the plate and explain what is really behind this. I have been a proud supporter, participant, and even cheerleader of each of these organizations for years, but I’m extremely dissapointed with the way they shoved this down our throats with no explanation.
I am starting to form some preliminary opinions:
1. The role of State representation is now eliminated. This is sad because my shooters enjoyed spending time with kids from Hawaii, Idaho, and other states. I fear that in the future the teams from some states will rarely be able to attend, instead you will see teams from NM, GA, NC, PA, and CA dominate the attendance.
2. Due to the limitations mentioned in 1. above, most 4-H Clubs, American Legion teams, and Venturing program teams will be severely limited in their ability to field a top-14 team.
3. Highly skilled individual shooters that are not members of a top-rated team will see their opportunities to participate diminished. For this reason, I object to the 14+5 rule, it should be 12 teams (of 5) +15 individuals.
Another disappointment is the timing of this announcement. Personally, I would have done this much differently. I would have given time and opportunity for all stakeholders to participate in some kind of dialog, and then given everyone at least 6 months before implementation. The perfect example of our current state of affairs is mentioned by jhmartin, his shooters can't participate in the NRA sectional match because of scheduling conflicts with Colorado Springs JO.
I find the implementation of this change unsavory; it reminds me of the way Nancy Pelosi explained Obamacare. I sincerely hope that the leadership of the CMP, NRA, and USAS step up to the plate and explain what is really behind this. I have been a proud supporter, participant, and even cheerleader of each of these organizations for years, but I’m extremely dissapointed with the way they shoved this down our throats with no explanation.
How will the 5 individuals be chosen? That is a real disincentive for kids who are not on a team. Only 5 individuals across all age levels for the entire country!? This rule will certainly influence the choice of competitions I schedule for my daughter. I will from now on chose a USAS event over CMP every time.
Here is how I presume it will work:
From the CMP Regional there will be 14 teams (4 primary + 1 alternate) and the 5 top ranked individuals that are not members of those 14 teams. This accounts for 75 shooters. From the combined CMP qualifier matches held across the country there will be another 14 teams and 5 individuals (75 total). From the combined NRA Sectionals held around the country (air rifle) there will be another 14 teams and 5 individuals (75 total).
These 250 young people will shoot over three days of competition where there will be three relays per day. The following day will be an awards ceremony.
Please note that they have apparently eliminated automatic qualifying scores and minimum scores as well. They have also deleted the scholastic and club categories. In theory this should level the playing field and bring the country's best 250 sporter and best 250 precision 3P shooters to one grand competition, and the winners' titles should be undisputed --CMP and NRA (with USAS sanction) all in one match.
The big question: Is this fair and who is going to be left out? Practically speaking, I estimate that out of each group of 75 listed above, there will probably be 14 out of the top 20 shooters included as part of the 14 teams -- probably. Now throw in 5 more individuals and you probably have the top 20 well represented -- probably. I still fear that some top-rated shooters from small teams with little depth will get the short end of this process. Hopefully they will work out the shortfalls in this plan sometime soon.
Don't give up on 3P air rifle! USA Shooting is a great organization, but shooting exclusively in the standing position will deny your youngsters the opportunity to correctly learn the fundamentals. Remember that NCAA shooters shoot standing air rifle AND 3P smallbore. A long-standing method of learning 3P smallbore shooting is by learning the fundamentals while shooting air rifle 3P. Show me a 18 year-old that can shoot a 590 in precision 3P and I'll bet that same shooter can shoot 580 in smallbore 3P with 3 weeks of good coaching. Don't give up, this recent change will probably work out OK over time and your kids need to learn fundamentals should come first.
From the CMP Regional there will be 14 teams (4 primary + 1 alternate) and the 5 top ranked individuals that are not members of those 14 teams. This accounts for 75 shooters. From the combined CMP qualifier matches held across the country there will be another 14 teams and 5 individuals (75 total). From the combined NRA Sectionals held around the country (air rifle) there will be another 14 teams and 5 individuals (75 total).
These 250 young people will shoot over three days of competition where there will be three relays per day. The following day will be an awards ceremony.
Please note that they have apparently eliminated automatic qualifying scores and minimum scores as well. They have also deleted the scholastic and club categories. In theory this should level the playing field and bring the country's best 250 sporter and best 250 precision 3P shooters to one grand competition, and the winners' titles should be undisputed --CMP and NRA (with USAS sanction) all in one match.
The big question: Is this fair and who is going to be left out? Practically speaking, I estimate that out of each group of 75 listed above, there will probably be 14 out of the top 20 shooters included as part of the 14 teams -- probably. Now throw in 5 more individuals and you probably have the top 20 well represented -- probably. I still fear that some top-rated shooters from small teams with little depth will get the short end of this process. Hopefully they will work out the shortfalls in this plan sometime soon.
Don't give up on 3P air rifle! USA Shooting is a great organization, but shooting exclusively in the standing position will deny your youngsters the opportunity to correctly learn the fundamentals. Remember that NCAA shooters shoot standing air rifle AND 3P smallbore. A long-standing method of learning 3P smallbore shooting is by learning the fundamentals while shooting air rifle 3P. Show me a 18 year-old that can shoot a 590 in precision 3P and I'll bet that same shooter can shoot 580 in smallbore 3P with 3 weeks of good coaching. Don't give up, this recent change will probably work out OK over time and your kids need to learn fundamentals should come first.
Old Dog,
Thanks for your thoughts on the CMP rule changes. I have not given up on 3PAR, or CMP. With the elimination of a minimum automatic qualifier score and only 5 individual invites, I will however, change the match priorities for my daughter. I understand CMP is primarily focused on teams. That is OK. If they want to place further emphasis on teams at the expense of individual competitors, that is their decision.
I live in Arkansas. My daughter is (as far as I know) the only shooter who is seriously pursuing precision 3PAR, International AR, and 3PSB in the entire state. There are a few JROTC teams around, but they lack the funding to be serious about precision class teams. So..... she always competes as an individual, with no change in sight to that.
In 3PAR she is shooting in the 580s. Recently finished second in the Bass Pro 600 with a 583. All I was really saying is that since CMP wants to place their focus on teams, when we have an choice of which competition to go to we will go to a USAS match over a CMP match since CMP appears to not want individual competitors competing at the national championship event. She will be shooting in the Arkansas State Championship 3PAR match which is (was) the CMP qualifier. She has had a goal set for months to qualify for the CMP Championship by shooting a 580 in the state match. She has worked hard to reach a level where she is shooting at or above 580 on a regular basis. Then I had to tell her a few days ago that they changed the rules, that even if she shoots a 580+ she is not likely to get an invite since there will only be 5 for the entire nation. I had a disappointed 14 year old girl on my hands as you can imagine.
Thanks for your thoughts on the CMP rule changes. I have not given up on 3PAR, or CMP. With the elimination of a minimum automatic qualifier score and only 5 individual invites, I will however, change the match priorities for my daughter. I understand CMP is primarily focused on teams. That is OK. If they want to place further emphasis on teams at the expense of individual competitors, that is their decision.
I live in Arkansas. My daughter is (as far as I know) the only shooter who is seriously pursuing precision 3PAR, International AR, and 3PSB in the entire state. There are a few JROTC teams around, but they lack the funding to be serious about precision class teams. So..... she always competes as an individual, with no change in sight to that.
In 3PAR she is shooting in the 580s. Recently finished second in the Bass Pro 600 with a 583. All I was really saying is that since CMP wants to place their focus on teams, when we have an choice of which competition to go to we will go to a USAS match over a CMP match since CMP appears to not want individual competitors competing at the national championship event. She will be shooting in the Arkansas State Championship 3PAR match which is (was) the CMP qualifier. She has had a goal set for months to qualify for the CMP Championship by shooting a 580 in the state match. She has worked hard to reach a level where she is shooting at or above 580 on a regular basis. Then I had to tell her a few days ago that they changed the rules, that even if she shoots a 580+ she is not likely to get an invite since there will only be 5 for the entire nation. I had a disappointed 14 year old girl on my hands as you can imagine.
I can say I do not like the change. In the past it was up set for states to send a representatives to a national. Something like the Miss USA pagent. I thought it was working well. So why the change?
The shooter not yet shooting national top scores will not need to set the state qualifying match as a priority. Travel time may be a priority.
Some very good state shooters with their eye on the gold will be left home.
This could also lower state teem participation at state qualifiers. The odds against winning an invite to this national just sky rocketed.
Time will tell.
The shooter not yet shooting national top scores will not need to set the state qualifying match as a priority. Travel time may be a priority.
Some very good state shooters with their eye on the gold will be left home.
This could also lower state teem participation at state qualifiers. The odds against winning an invite to this national just sky rocketed.
Time will tell.
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ALLEN JAYNES
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match
In talking with the powers to be for the upcoming nationals the way I understand it is the numbers of teams that will go are 42 teams and 15 individuals. I may be wrong but they will take the top 14 teams from the sectionals, state championships and the regionals that will be 42 teams and most will overlap so they will ratchet down to the next competitor or team, that would be 210 team members and 15 individuals to shoot so that would be 3 relays of shooters, about what we have seen in the past. My understanding they are still working on will it be an open junior match like the NRA match or high school like CMP ,will they have open team and scholastic or just all teams overall . I do not like the 10 minute rule for sighter shots, just my thoughts
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SRichieR
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Just saw this thread. I guess the JO Qualifier will no longer be a priority match for my club. JROTC in my state with their funding, facilities and daily hard work beat us every time in sporter, but, we were in the club category and stood a chance to represent our state at nationals. My kids will probably go to the beach this year.
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Maxicooper
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- Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Maxicooper
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:06 am
- Location: Ellicott City, MD
Re: 3p champ
Which of CMP tournaments and NRA tournaments that are used to qualify for the National?caveman wrote:Maxicooper,
What about?
Does CMP use their state JO matches and postal/regional match to qualify 2 groups of 14 teams and 5 individuals? What about NRA?
I could not find clear detail, especially, from NRA site.
:(
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Maxicooper
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- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:06 am
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Here is what I believe it is (correct me if I was wrong)
1. CMP Postal match qualifiers "and" top shooters from CMP 3PAR state championships, will compete in CMP 3PAR regional championship = 5 individuals and 14 teams
2. CMP States 3PAR Junior Olympic = 5 individuals and 14 teams
3. NRA Sectionals (and State Championships?) = 5 individuals and 14 teams
1. CMP Postal match qualifiers "and" top shooters from CMP 3PAR state championships, will compete in CMP 3PAR regional championship = 5 individuals and 14 teams
2. CMP States 3PAR Junior Olympic = 5 individuals and 14 teams
3. NRA Sectionals (and State Championships?) = 5 individuals and 14 teams
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redschietti
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SailAwayAK
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That's real funny (not!)
When I complained about CMP hosting the Western & Southern Regionals right over the top of the USAS JOs, I was told the kids that could not make it could qualify with NRA sectionals.
AGAIN ... what we were originally told does not match with reality.
Too bad for the shooters ... again.
When I complained about CMP hosting the Western & Southern Regionals right over the top of the USAS JOs, I was told the kids that could not make it could qualify with NRA sectionals.
AGAIN ... what we were originally told does not match with reality.
Too bad for the shooters ... again.
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Maxicooper
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:06 am
- Location: Ellicott City, MD