Marvel Unit1 Locking Back - Shouldn't be

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:01 pm

Hello,

Took out my new Marvel Precision Unit 1 had my first problem already. Was using CCI Std Velocity and the first 10 rounds fired fine. After that kept getting the slide locking back at least once per group. This is not the lockback model. Took the unit off the frame and I can pull the slide back and get it to stick as well. Have it on a GC Series 70 with the oem trigger, unmodified. Wouldn't think that would have a problem.

Any ideas? Pretty disappointed. Didn't expect this type of problem. I was expecting FTF or FTE's. Don't see any troubleshooting on their website for this.

Thanks

CR10X · Post by **CR10X** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:35 pm

Typically, a Marvel will have problems like you describe if the unit is not installed properly and the rod is not engaging the slide stop pin like it should. Second reason is improperly installed scope rib, when it is sloping to the rear and binds the slide when in the open position. Third reason is ejector is binding the slide, usually too tall or sometimes leaning slightly to the center. Hope this helps.

Cecil

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:45 pm

Thanks for the ideas.

I don't think any of them is what's happening though. There's no binding of any type. It looks like the unit is going back to the max and the barrel is jamming into the slide. I can see metal transferring from the aluminum onto the barrel. With the unit off the frame, I can push the slide back as far as it will go and it will stick onto the barrel the same way. I think some of the shots push the slide back too far and it bottoms out and gets stuck. The slide won't go back any further and I need to give it a light smack with my hand to get it to move forward.

I didn't think CCI Std Vel would push the slide back that far with a stock recoil spring Marvel puts in.

Since having this problem today, I did some research and read they had some slide cracking from going back too far in previous versions. Some people currently have made their own Shok Buf's for slides going back too far. This may be fine but I don't think the slide should be going back too far and bottoming out.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:02 pm

it could be your magazine that is locking back the slide. Try firing one round at a time without the magazine in the gun and see if it still locks open. If the magazine has a little catch on it, try filing that off, if you dont want it to lock back. CCI should work fine in the gun.

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:09 pm

Isabel1130 wrote:it could be your magazine that is locking back the slide. Try firing one round at a time without the magazine in the gun and see if it still locks open. If the magazine has a little catch on it, try filing that off, if you dont want it to lock back. CCI should work fine in the gun.

Thanks for the thought. When the slide is locked/stuck back, it's much further back than the magazine. The magazine can fall out on it's own and the slide is still stuck back.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:15 pm

That is a problem. Do you have another lower you can borrow and try the gun on? Sounds like maybe the slide stop is not holding the unit correctly. What kind of a frame do you have it mounted on? Also as Cecil suggested. Take off the scope rib and try shooting without it.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:23 pm

Ok, as you said it is a series 70. I can think of one other thing. The rails may either be squeezed, expanded or one of them is not straight, causing the gun to not return into battery correctly. If this frame was accurized by squeezing the original slide onto the frame, this can happen.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:31 pm

I took my Marvel off and on a couple times trying to figure out your problem.

The Marvel slide has no where to go but forward and back cause it rides in the rail of the frame.

Only bind would be the frame or slide.

Clarence

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:10 pm

C. Perkins wrote:I took my Marvel off and on a couple times trying to figure out your problem.

The Marvel slide has no where to go but forward and back cause it rides in the rail of the frame.

Only bind would be the frame or slide.

Clarence

Interesting problem isn't it?

There's no binding of the slide to the frame. The 2 ears of the square part of the barrel hit the inner part where the recoil spring goes in the slide and where that part of the barrel also goes into it. The aluminum is mashed down where they make contact, enough where the barrel is jammed into it. The slide goes back too far just as if the recoil spring is too weak.

With the Unit 1 off the frame and spring removed from the unit, I can move the slide as far back as it will go until the ears touch the inside of the slide. The barrel will stick to the frame. I don't think the slide should go back that far when shooting. The only thing I can figure would be a weak recoil spring. Maybe they shipped mine with a lighter spring or maybe my mainspring is lighter than the 19 lbs they say is ok at a minimum. Maybe the didn't machine enough metal out of the slide for the barrel ears to hit it.

I ground down a Shok Buf and put it in the slide and the unit doesn't stick just operating it by hand. Still don't think it's good for it to be hitting the shok buf on a regular basis.

I have another frame I'll try but the only difference I'd think would be different tension of the main spring.

If I have some ambition maybe I'll see if I can get a picture.

Thanks

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:05 pm

Okay;
I have my Marvel dissasembled in front of me as I write this.
I see what you are talking about.
My slide has a very faint peening on both sides where the aluminum is snow plowed forward a couple thousands of an inch.
If this is truley where it is hanging up, then it needs to be machined a bit more for the slide to travel all the way.

Clarence

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:42 pm

C. Perkins wrote:Okay;
I have my Marvel dissasembled in front of me as I write this.
I see what you are talking about.
My slide has a very faint peening on both sides where the aluminum is snow plowed forward a couple thousands of an inch.
If this is truley where it is hanging up, then it needs to be machined a bit more for the slide to travel all the way.

Clarence

Are you telling me Marvel Precision did a lousy job machining their slide and some metal may need to be removed?

If you're getting some peaning also, doesn't sound good on your slide.

Here's some pics:

double click on the slide pic for a larger view.

Is your metal farther back than my pic? Took a bunch of pics and inside of things don't show well.

I still don't think the slide should go back that far as it's almost 1/2" more than the slide stop catches on.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:24 pm

I wouldnt get my pantys in a bunch as of yet.

My peening has already been peened and runs flawlessly.
Part of the break in process.
Once the peening is out of the way, the clearance is fine.

We are talking very close tolerances.

If I had your Marvel in front of me, I bet I could get it running fine in about 15 minutes.

I smith most all of my guns.

You will find peening on a .45 in the dust cover where the recoil rod smacks it(where a buffer will ride).
Not a problem, it is what it is.

I know what it is like to get a new toy and things do not go as we expect them to.
It happens, be patient and work it out.
In the end, you will be happy.

Sorry about the first sentence in my post.
I did not say that Marvel did a bad job.
They put out a very good product.
contact them and let Marvel make it right.
It is only a fair business practice.

I would like to see a better close up pic of your slide, the pic you have is horrible.

Just saying;

Clarence

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:59 pm

C. Perkins wrote: My peening has already been peened and runs flawlessly.
Part of the break in process.
Once the peening is out of the way, the clearance is fine.

When talking to Marvel about different ammo they mentioned with the wrong spring the slide could go back too hard and become damaged. Don't know how far back it's supposed to go. I'm surprised nobody else has experienced this problem or that Marvel doesn't have any troubleshooting for it.

C. Perkins wrote: If I had your Marvel in front of me, I bet I could get it running fine in about 15 minutes.

I smith most all of my guns.

I do as much smithing as I can. Already built several rifles. Can't deal with the "it'll be done in 3 months then a year later I"m begging to get my parts back and the gunsmith acts like I'm the bad guy.

I'd gather you are referring to getting the dremel out and preforming some fitting? I wouldn't have a problem with that if Marvel told me to do it or I saw 10 others with the same problem. I'd hate to void the warranty on something this expensive.

C. Perkins wrote: I know what it is like to get a new toy and things do not go as we expect them to.
It happens, be patient and work it out.
In the end, you will be happy.

$500 isn't easy to come by these days especially for a conversion. Friends told me I was nuts and should have spent it on a complete gun like a buckmark or ruger.

C. Perkins wrote: I would like to see a better close up pic of your slide, the pic you have is horrible.

Pics didn't come out well as it's hard to get it to focus on the inside part, not the top. Took that thing apart so many times today, I'll have to get in the mood again to get more pics. Pics were mainly to show where the problem is as many had posted of binding problems with the frame.

Trooperjake · Post by **Trooperjake** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:22 pm

Matchguy I would box up the unit and send it back to marvel.
It should not need gunsmithing out of the box.
If you try to fix it yourself and screw it up, Marvel will probably void the warranty.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:32 pm

I would listen to Clarence's advice and take Jake's.

Why the hell should you mess about with a new unit.

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Rover wrote:I would listen to Clarence's advice and take Jake's.

Why the hell should you mess about with a new unit.

Don't think I'll be modifying it. I will try it on another frame. With the holiday I can't do anything anyway. If I do have to send it back I'm the lucky one as I get to spend another $15 in shipping to the $500 I already spent. I've been searching all day long so far and did see for jamming problems (not like mine) they want you to get different springs at your expense.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Just thought when I made the post, this was a common problem with a simple solution. Nearly a day of searching and didn't find anyone with this exact problem.

BTW it cost me $20 range fee, $4.50 a gal gas & $8 for CCI Std Vel.
I'm wondering if I should have just stuck with the Ciener. At least it works.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:54 pm

One thing that caught my eye is that you paid $500 ?
I paid $360 ish through Midway USA.
It is a Marvel unit #1

Where did you purchase your Marvel ?

By the way, the slide should always go all the way back and all the way forward no matter what pistol you are shooting.
This is how it is supposed to work, correctly.
You can change the speed of the slide with a different spring/load combination, but it still has to go both ways to the limit for proper function.

Clarence

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:00 pm

C. Perkins wrote:One thing that caught my eye is that you paid $500 ?
I paid $360 ish through Midway USA.
It is a Marvel unit #1

Where did you purchase your Marvel ?

By the way, the slide should always go all the way back and all the way forward no matter what pistol you are shooting.
This is how it is supposed to work, correctly.
You can change the speed of the slide with a different spring/load combination, but it still has to go both ways to the limit for proper function.

Clarence

Midwayusa's price is $455 + $15 shipping. Pretty close to $500. You must have bought your's awhile ago or you have a Unit 2. Marvel's price is $489 + $22 shipping. Had to sell a bunch of stuff to justify spending that much.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148608 ... andPopProd

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:02 pm

If you do need to send it back, it will fit in the small express mail box at the post office.
I would try another frame. I really think the problem may be there. Matchguy, where are you?

matchguy · Post by **matchguy** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:04 pm

Isabel1130 wrote:If you do need to send it back, it will fit in the small express mail box at the post office.
I would try another frame. I really think the problem may be there. Matchguy, where are you?

Thanks

I think insurance for $500 is more than a few bucks. I'd have to check.

Sorry, I can't say. I'm in unfriendly gun territory. If you're a gun person, you don't want to live here.

Lets hope for luck on the different frame. Got a buddy going to bring out one of his as well.

TargetTalk

Marvel Unit1 Locking Back - Shouldn't be

Marvel Unit1 Locking Back - Shouldn't be

You beat me to it Kate.

Re: You beat me to it Kate.