red dot on 45

Wing nut · Post by **Wing nut** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:14 am

should it be on frame or rail

NDbullseye · Post by **NDbullseye** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:45 am

doesn't really matter. I personal use a slide mount. I will say use an ultradot on a 45. they last alot longer than others.

Levergun59 · Post by **Levergun59** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:37 am

Wing nut,
I have a frame mounted red dot. I see no need to put more mass on the slide. It just adds more stress on the rails, raises pressure in the chamber to drive back the heavier slide, and adds to felt recoil. Just my thoughts.
Chris

Misny · Post by **Misny** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:09 pm

The majority of bullseye pistol shooters use a slide mounted scope, but there is nothing wrong with a frame mounted scope. There is no drawback to using a slide mount that I've noticed. The two types do recoil differently and slide mount takes a few tenths of a grain more powder in the reloads to function reliably.

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:05 pm

I installed a 7 inch Docter red dot on my S&W9465PC using a BME mojunt which replaces the rear sight.

Finprof · Post by **Finprof** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:20 pm

One gunsmith told me that he could get better accuracy with a slide-mounted dot because the barrel locks to the slide and not to the frame.
Looking around at Bullseye matches I see more slide-mounted dots than frame-mounted dots. Despite all that, I think I can call my shot better with a frame mounted dot. I have both.

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:55 pm

It is cheaper to have a slide mount by quite a bit. Frame mounts are very difficult to mount properly and take a lot of time and precision to attach. When you have a heavier slide, more recoil is required to work the action.

Dave C. · Post by **Dave C.** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:39 pm

The slide mount is the way to go because it eliminates any error caused
by any play in the slide to frame fit. If your set up is right you do not
need to up your charge. I shoot a Clark long heavy slide chambered
in 38 Spl. WC with a slide mounted UD4. My load? 2.8 BE under a
148 WC. The slide mount does have a different recoil, it will twist upward
slightly when compared to a frame mount. Shoot the type of mount you
like best.

Dave C.
Distinguished, Master, 2600 Club and President 100 Badge Holder

Dave C. · Post by **Dave C.** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:45 pm

oops!

trulyapostolic · Post by **trulyapostolic** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:13 pm

One responder is partly correct. It takes more energy to operate the slide-mounted dot therefore you'll have to load a little hotter. But, you'll find that your felt recoil will be less because of the additional mass attached to that slide. The slide moves considerably slower as well, I can feel it working after squeezing off a shot.
I don't think you'll have chamber pressure increases due to the additional weight. If you look at some slow motion video of a semi auto firearm discharging you'll understand. On a breach locking gun the bullet has left the barrel before the barrel begins to unlock from the slide.
My recommendation is a slide mount.

Levergun59 · Post by **Levergun59** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:18 am

My initial misgiving was that the mass of the red dot is a lot higher on a frame mounted gun imparting more torque and more felt recoil over a longer period of time. It would tend to impart more wear at the ends of the slide rails. Stopping the mass of the red dot in lockup would impart angular momentum down against the slide-rail contact point in the front of the gun. A frame mounted red dot resists the torque from the slide as it is mounted a little higher above the bore and attached to the grip. You will come back to your aiming point quicker. But, some of this is hypothetical and is derived from Physics, but I have shot both and I can tell that the recoil from a slide mounted red dot is perceived by me as heavier and slower to get back in battery. Your observation that a slide mounted red dot is more accurate is duly noted.
Chris

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:07 am

"The slide mount is the way to go because it eliminates any error caused
by any play in the slide to frame fit."

This sounds logical but what does it really mean? My thoughts are that there are two things moving in any semi auto that does not have the barrel integrated into the slide. The slide moves on the rails, and the barrel moves inside of the slide. Whether the scope is mounted on the frame, (the part with the rails) or the slide, the red dot still must stay aligned with the barrel inside of the slide.
I don't think there in any inherent difference in accuracy between the two systems. (at least none that would make a difference in conventional pistol which is shot a short distances and relatively large targets.) This isn't bench rest.

However, most shooters perceive a difference in dot stability when the dot is lower down and closer to the barrel. It takes a really good frame mount to get the dot as low as you can get it with a slide mount. The trade off, is the frame mount is less sensitive to lighter loads and it is somewhat easier to tune your ammo for the short line, and avoid alabis.
My gunsmith also believes that the less weight that is carried by the slide as it moves back and forth, the longer your gun will shoot accurately, and you should be able to get several thousand more rounds out of the gun before it loses accuracy with a frame mount.

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:59 pm

Exactly and the barrel which moves is also setting on the frame via the lug which is more solid than the slide.

canthit · Post by **canthit** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:06 pm

One thing you might want to consider on which mount is if you are going to shoot light loads or heavy loads. If all you are shooting is lighter loads the slide mount is fine, recoil from heavy loads can be hard on red dots or scopes mounted on the slide. If shooting all different loads the frame mount would be better. As stated already is cost, frame mount and drilled and taped $180 plus and about $50-60 for slide.

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm

I have several ultra-dots and find the zeroing and locking of the settings all a bit weird. I am used to precision optics like my March scope and the black wheel over the allen key seems guessy.

I am having a pistol made by Mountain Competition Pistols and was told to get an Aimpoint Micro 910. When it arrived i put it on my Walther 32 and it is the best thing i ever did. By reducing the brightness, a feature not on the Ultra Dot, you can get that red dot really small. Each click is 7mm and that's exact.

Just bought another, cheapest is Optics PLanet. Fantastic optic!

Bob-Riegl · Post by **Bob-Riegl** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:12 pm

I am jealous of people who can afford that teeny Aim Point....it's not in my price range, though a great sight. As to the mounting a dot on a .45, I go for the slide mount for just some more mass to the slide to imrpove the action and lock-up. A carefully selected Ultra Dot is the only dot that I feel can and will take the pounding, so that's my choice. "Doc"

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:44 pm

rstriano wrote:I have several ultra-dots and find the zeroing and locking of the settings all a bit weird. I am used to precision optics like my March scope and the black wheel over the allen key seems guessy.

I am having a pistol made by Mountain Competition Pistols and was told to get an Aimpoint Micro 910. When it arrived i put it on my Walther 32 and it is the best thing i ever did. By reducing the brightness, a feature not on the Ultra Dot, you can get that red dot really small. Each click is 7mm and that's exact.

Just bought another, cheapest is Optics PLanet. Fantastic optic!

If you keep an eye out for them you can find deals on the aimpoint micros NIB on Ebay. Unless you're scuba diving with them the R1, H1, and T1 are all the same device.

Be patient with the good doctor. Whatever expectations you have, you're going to be astonished by the MCP 1911.

He makes some simple but crucial mods to the aimpoint as well that really make it work a lot better for bullseye. Without them they're actually pretty worthless on a .45.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Bob-Riegl wrote:I am jealous of people who can afford that teeny Aim Point....it's not in my price range, though a great sight. As to the mounting a dot on a .45, I go for the slide mount for just some more mass to the slide to imrpove the action and lock-up. A carefully selected Ultra Dot is the only dot that I feel can and will take the pounding, so that's my choice. "Doc"

I have three of the micros. (long story) and I am looking to sell or trade them all. I prefer the longer tube of the ultradot, how easy they are to adjust on the line, and the weight they put on the front of my gun. For consistencies sake, I want the Ultradots on all my guns and will be going to a Marvel conversion for all bullseye rimfire in the next few months.

trulyapostolic · Post by **trulyapostolic** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:58 am

Isabel1130 wrote: I have three of the micros. (long story) and I am looking to sell or trade them all. I prefer the longer tube of the ultradot, how easy they are to adjust on the line, and the weight they put on the front of my gun. For consistencies sake, I want the Ultradots on all my guns and will be going to a Marvel conversion for all bullseye rimfire in the next few months.

You'll want to use the new Marvel metal mags or have Marvel send you their tuned Ace mags. I sent you a PM also.

Freepistol · Post by **Freepistol** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:58 am

I would think that parallax would be worse with a shorter tube as on the Micro, however, I have not seen a test. Does anyone have a link to a comparison parallax test of the Micro vs Ultradot? Thanks
ben

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