This is the showoff topic where you can post pictures our you equipment. I will start first:
I have a Steyr LP10E with a Rink S grip and a custom trigger-shoe. Isn't it a beauty?
The big "Show your airpistol"-Topic
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Naimed1983
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 am
- Location: Netherlands
The big "Show your airpistol"-Topic
Hi Guys,
This is the showoff topic where you can post pictures our you equipment. I will start first:
I have a Steyr LP10E with a Rink S grip and a custom trigger-shoe. Isn't it a beauty?
This is the showoff topic where you can post pictures our you equipment. I will start first:
I have a Steyr LP10E with a Rink S grip and a custom trigger-shoe. Isn't it a beauty?
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
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Naimed1983
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 am
- Location: Netherlands
Well, you don't have to take it that serious. I am just wondering how other AP shooters have modified on there Air-pistol.
My opinion about the 'looks' of a gun; For a beginner shooter it can make a big difference in confidence to shoot with i AP witch they think looks nice, instead of ugly. More serious shooters don't care. Thats okay, but this topic is not meant to start a discussion about the impact of care/don't care the looks of a AP. That's an other topic imo.
My opinion about the 'looks' of a gun; For a beginner shooter it can make a big difference in confidence to shoot with i AP witch they think looks nice, instead of ugly. More serious shooters don't care. Thats okay, but this topic is not meant to start a discussion about the impact of care/don't care the looks of a AP. That's an other topic imo.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
My old (pre bearing trigger) LP10. Vitarbo grip (that had to be modified because it wouldn't fit in the "box" ~ pissed me off to no end).
Not nearly enough stickers! :D
The grip looked like a massive mess about 6 months ago (and for the 2 years prior to that). All my grip-putty was a different color than the wood of the grip, and that was starting to discolor in high spots from handling/use. I always had an issue with sweaty palms so I decided to give something I read here a try. I stripped and refinished the wood a darker color and added Silicon Carbide (read here ~ viewtopic.php?t=12970) to the grip surface. Was quite harsh on the hand for the first month or so (handling the gun for 2~3 hours a day, 5~6 days a week), but I love it now. VERY secure feel to the grip, my hand doesn't get anywhere near as sweaty (though is still hot).
I'm the limiting factor, but have managed a personal best of 561 in competition with it.
Not nearly enough stickers! :D
The grip looked like a massive mess about 6 months ago (and for the 2 years prior to that). All my grip-putty was a different color than the wood of the grip, and that was starting to discolor in high spots from handling/use. I always had an issue with sweaty palms so I decided to give something I read here a try. I stripped and refinished the wood a darker color and added Silicon Carbide (read here ~ viewtopic.php?t=12970) to the grip surface. Was quite harsh on the hand for the first month or so (handling the gun for 2~3 hours a day, 5~6 days a week), but I love it now. VERY secure feel to the grip, my hand doesn't get anywhere near as sweaty (though is still hot).
I'm the limiting factor, but have managed a personal best of 561 in competition with it.
Last edited by Brian M on Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Naimed1983
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 am
- Location: Netherlands
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Naimed1983
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 am
- Location: Netherlands
I've made a number of modifications to my 46m. Most have enabled small improvements in results, some are not conclusive yet. Here's what's been done, roughly in order it was made/modified:
- Grip carved from 'big leaf' maple (aged violin wood, a bit left over at the end of a nice wedge) to fit my hand exactly, changing rotation slightly from original, adding rake adjustment for better wrist lock, and canting hand further underneath the pistol. An immediate 4% increase in my average over the stock grip with extensive putty modification. The increased rake pushed it out beyond 'the box' dimensions initially, so I had to square off the rear, bringing the overall length 1mm shorter than the allowed maximum dimension. Width is legal as well.
- Cocking arm shortened somewhat, to get it away from my hand when snapping it closed, adding new round end for more comfortable pushing. No noticeable increase in effort. Trigger guard shortened somewhat for same reason - I only got caught between this and the arm once, but it hurt.
- Barrel clamp removed; it didn't seem necessary, and indeed it wasn't. I wasn't so much worried about weight (and the thing weighs very little anyway), but the pistol felt 'dead' on firing with the clamp on. Without, it rings, and has a much more natural feel. No change in accuracy.
- Trigger made of some 3/8" stainless rod; the original Baikal trigger has some cant to the right, but my finger was still crossing it on a slant, making for inconsistent and slightly mushy feel. The new trigger allows my finger bone to cross at a perfect 90 degrees and feels much more crisp. Easier to feel for the same contact point every time as well.
- Some filing and polishing around transfer block, as the sharp edges were at times painful and a defect in the auto-lift mechanism meant I was often lifting manually to cock the trigger and load. I've since removed the little extension of sheet metal from under the barrel which performed this function, as the mechanism's failure (something I've found reported by others using this pistol, with no offered solutions working for mine) was becoming very distracting. It still fell of course, even without the auto-lift, so I also grafted in a strong neodymium magnet just at the back of the cut-out. It stays up perfectly now. Some steel-filled epoxy putty and black enamel paint make it hard to notice the magnet unless you're looking for it.
- Front sight block trimmed to about 1/2 its length and rounded at the bottom. This still was very hard, so I annealed it, then re-bored and tapped the set screw hole beneath to a 10-32 to fit a more solid-feeling stainless steel allen set screw. It's mounted about 1mm away from contact with the front edge of the cylinder so the barrel's movement/tuning are not significantly impacted.
- I then moved this further back on the barrel, as some experimenting with weights showed that I liked the steadying influence of a bit more front weight and the barrel was a good place to fit this. I've made a copper pipe filled with lead for the barrel front just ahead of the sight block. The weight is 54grams, about 15grams more than all the stuff I'd previously removed from the pistol, and all right up front. The difference is approximately a half-ring in improved hold stability, I think. The slight decrease in sight radius - about 15mm - does not seem to be a problem. I'd have added more weight, and still might, but the bit of copper tubing was the closest thing I had to melt pellets into without going to too large a diameter and interfering with the front sight picture. The weight is flush with the muzzle, so no 'box' fit problems.
I like the 46m very much. Did from the start of course, but now it feels like 'home' to me and I'm scarcely conscious of the pistol when shooting as much of its operation has become automatic. The effect of getting to know it, and getting it customised to suit me so well, is that if I try to recall the previous loading operation for example it's often difficult to remember. Unconscious actions of that sort seem to contribute to more effective focus on the primary task: watching the sights while releasing the shot. When the pistol gave me trouble or discomfort or was difficult to repeat in grip or trigger position from shot to shot I was distracted, often well into sighting.
- Grip carved from 'big leaf' maple (aged violin wood, a bit left over at the end of a nice wedge) to fit my hand exactly, changing rotation slightly from original, adding rake adjustment for better wrist lock, and canting hand further underneath the pistol. An immediate 4% increase in my average over the stock grip with extensive putty modification. The increased rake pushed it out beyond 'the box' dimensions initially, so I had to square off the rear, bringing the overall length 1mm shorter than the allowed maximum dimension. Width is legal as well.
- Cocking arm shortened somewhat, to get it away from my hand when snapping it closed, adding new round end for more comfortable pushing. No noticeable increase in effort. Trigger guard shortened somewhat for same reason - I only got caught between this and the arm once, but it hurt.
- Barrel clamp removed; it didn't seem necessary, and indeed it wasn't. I wasn't so much worried about weight (and the thing weighs very little anyway), but the pistol felt 'dead' on firing with the clamp on. Without, it rings, and has a much more natural feel. No change in accuracy.
- Trigger made of some 3/8" stainless rod; the original Baikal trigger has some cant to the right, but my finger was still crossing it on a slant, making for inconsistent and slightly mushy feel. The new trigger allows my finger bone to cross at a perfect 90 degrees and feels much more crisp. Easier to feel for the same contact point every time as well.
- Some filing and polishing around transfer block, as the sharp edges were at times painful and a defect in the auto-lift mechanism meant I was often lifting manually to cock the trigger and load. I've since removed the little extension of sheet metal from under the barrel which performed this function, as the mechanism's failure (something I've found reported by others using this pistol, with no offered solutions working for mine) was becoming very distracting. It still fell of course, even without the auto-lift, so I also grafted in a strong neodymium magnet just at the back of the cut-out. It stays up perfectly now. Some steel-filled epoxy putty and black enamel paint make it hard to notice the magnet unless you're looking for it.
- Front sight block trimmed to about 1/2 its length and rounded at the bottom. This still was very hard, so I annealed it, then re-bored and tapped the set screw hole beneath to a 10-32 to fit a more solid-feeling stainless steel allen set screw. It's mounted about 1mm away from contact with the front edge of the cylinder so the barrel's movement/tuning are not significantly impacted.
- I then moved this further back on the barrel, as some experimenting with weights showed that I liked the steadying influence of a bit more front weight and the barrel was a good place to fit this. I've made a copper pipe filled with lead for the barrel front just ahead of the sight block. The weight is 54grams, about 15grams more than all the stuff I'd previously removed from the pistol, and all right up front. The difference is approximately a half-ring in improved hold stability, I think. The slight decrease in sight radius - about 15mm - does not seem to be a problem. I'd have added more weight, and still might, but the bit of copper tubing was the closest thing I had to melt pellets into without going to too large a diameter and interfering with the front sight picture. The weight is flush with the muzzle, so no 'box' fit problems.
I like the 46m very much. Did from the start of course, but now it feels like 'home' to me and I'm scarcely conscious of the pistol when shooting as much of its operation has become automatic. The effect of getting to know it, and getting it customised to suit me so well, is that if I try to recall the previous loading operation for example it's often difficult to remember. Unconscious actions of that sort seem to contribute to more effective focus on the primary task: watching the sights while releasing the shot. When the pistol gave me trouble or discomfort or was difficult to repeat in grip or trigger position from shot to shot I was distracted, often well into sighting.
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Naimed1983
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 am
- Location: Netherlands
Thanks, it has been a bit of work. Worth it though. If I'd been able to find an FWB 10x series or a Pardini K58 this spring I'd probably not have done much to it, but the grip of the Baikal just begged to be replaced and from there on it seemed there was more room for improvements, so why not. Even the best pistol grips are rarely perfectly suited to a given hand. I expect that's why yours has such thorough stippling. I've wanted to avoid having to do that, prefer a smooth surface if possible, and with the shape suiting me so well it's really not necessary to add texture or grippy stuff.
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Bob LeDoux
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:08 pm
- Location: Jefferson, OR (near Salem)
Certainly not as fancy as many of the classy Air Pistols here, but I call this trio "The Targeteers".
The Beeman P3 (German Made) is totally stock. Despite the super trigger of this pistol, I shoot my Crosman's better.
The Crosman 1377 (on the left) has received a replacement hammer spring/follower and breech screw as well as pivot pin.
The Crosman Custom Shop 1740 (on the right) I special ordered to compete on several different website competition in .177 caliber, which allowed easier entry, provided I was up to the task of holding still long enough to put pellet to target. It has a lighter hammer spring, a different hammer spring and a Mellon power adjuster on it.
The Beeman P3 (German Made) is totally stock. Despite the super trigger of this pistol, I shoot my Crosman's better.
The Crosman 1377 (on the left) has received a replacement hammer spring/follower and breech screw as well as pivot pin.
The Crosman Custom Shop 1740 (on the right) I special ordered to compete on several different website competition in .177 caliber, which allowed easier entry, provided I was up to the task of holding still long enough to put pellet to target. It has a lighter hammer spring, a different hammer spring and a Mellon power adjuster on it.
Naimed,
may be you can help me. Today I posted a message, but I will summ up here again.
I had ordered after long thinking an LP10E. However since the very first moment I have had a very strange feeling with its grip, which I do not have with any other pistol.
The feeling is of my hand not being able to "wrap" the grip. This is very strange as I have very long fingers and with any grip (and any size, even XXL whilst I am 90mm wide, so a M) I have a gap of about 10-15mm to fill in the front to make the phalanx perpendicular to barrel.
Somebody pointed out that the problem is perhaps at the heel of my hand.
I have been measuring a horiginal grip (in the direction perpendicular to the barrel, so from the metallic cover to the opposite side) and I have seen that it is about 8-10mm thicker than the grip of a LP10.
So one problem is that the grip is too thick, presumably to accomodate the electroncs.
I have carefully measured and seen that you can file away possibly 5mm and then you enter in the electronics!
So it will always be thicker.
However I think that this is not the only problem.
I think that the worst problem comes at the bottomi ot the grip.
I have been carefully comparing the LP10E and LP10 grips (also thanks to your great pictures) and I think that the problem is that the right side of the grip (opposite to the metal cover and therefore the one in contact with the palm) is straight till the bottom! There is no shaping!
The palm of the hands is normaly curled, and therefore the grip must have a ball to fit in the middel of the palem and the bottom (just before the support) needs to be thinner!
Any other grip, for any pistol, even that of the LP10, is shaped in this way.
I tried to talk to Steyr and to Rink (as I decided to get a custom-made grip), but I had non conclusive replies.
When you went to Rink, did you have problems related to this issue? Did you discuss this with Rink, or did you manage to understand/learn any detail which could help me?
Can you give me any advice?
I am still in time to change my order and move to the mechanical one!
thanks a lot
Now I have time till next week to change my order.
may be you can help me. Today I posted a message, but I will summ up here again.
I had ordered after long thinking an LP10E. However since the very first moment I have had a very strange feeling with its grip, which I do not have with any other pistol.
The feeling is of my hand not being able to "wrap" the grip. This is very strange as I have very long fingers and with any grip (and any size, even XXL whilst I am 90mm wide, so a M) I have a gap of about 10-15mm to fill in the front to make the phalanx perpendicular to barrel.
Somebody pointed out that the problem is perhaps at the heel of my hand.
I have been measuring a horiginal grip (in the direction perpendicular to the barrel, so from the metallic cover to the opposite side) and I have seen that it is about 8-10mm thicker than the grip of a LP10.
So one problem is that the grip is too thick, presumably to accomodate the electroncs.
I have carefully measured and seen that you can file away possibly 5mm and then you enter in the electronics!
So it will always be thicker.
However I think that this is not the only problem.
I think that the worst problem comes at the bottomi ot the grip.
I have been carefully comparing the LP10E and LP10 grips (also thanks to your great pictures) and I think that the problem is that the right side of the grip (opposite to the metal cover and therefore the one in contact with the palm) is straight till the bottom! There is no shaping!
The palm of the hands is normaly curled, and therefore the grip must have a ball to fit in the middel of the palem and the bottom (just before the support) needs to be thinner!
Any other grip, for any pistol, even that of the LP10, is shaped in this way.
I tried to talk to Steyr and to Rink (as I decided to get a custom-made grip), but I had non conclusive replies.
When you went to Rink, did you have problems related to this issue? Did you discuss this with Rink, or did you manage to understand/learn any detail which could help me?
Can you give me any advice?
I am still in time to change my order and move to the mechanical one!
thanks a lot
Now I have time till next week to change my order.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
From my experience with the Steyr electronic trigger gun, I don't think that the electronic unit inside the grip is a major obstacle to getting a properly fitting grip, and my hand is a smallish medium size with short fingers. My problem with it is reaching the trigger, but if you have longer fingers that shouldn't be a problem for you.therider wrote:
I tried to talk to Steyr and to Rink (as I decided to get a custom-made grip), but I had non conclusive replies.
And from my experience asking Mr. Rink questions by email, I found that you're not going to get much information that way. However I strongly suspect that if you go there with an appointment for a custom grip, you will end up with a very satisfactory solution.
HTH,
FredB
David, thanks. Yes I did realize that it is old. I was relying on the fact that when you post something the topic jumps at the top of the list!
Fred, you are right. At Rink they do not even answer the phone. And if you are lucky the give you rushed replies, as they did to me. They have a tight schedule : 2 different customers every hour....I hope that this does not affect the results!
I cannot go just for enquiring....it's 4.5 hours north of Munich.
Fred, do you have a standard, factory grip? You do not have this feeling of not being able to wrap the grip?
Yesterday I came across a picture, taken from the back, of 5 AP tested recently by Visier, I guess everybody as read (at least seen, as it is in German), and you clearly see how much thicker the Lp10e grip is.
Fred, you are right. At Rink they do not even answer the phone. And if you are lucky the give you rushed replies, as they did to me. They have a tight schedule : 2 different customers every hour....I hope that this does not affect the results!
I cannot go just for enquiring....it's 4.5 hours north of Munich.
Fred, do you have a standard, factory grip? You do not have this feeling of not being able to wrap the grip?
Yesterday I came across a picture, taken from the back, of 5 AP tested recently by Visier, I guess everybody as read (at least seen, as it is in German), and you clearly see how much thicker the Lp10e grip is.