New to Forum ... Anyone have .32 S&W long experience?
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Dave Wilson Barrel
I agree. If I can't do it myself, I will be contacting him. This Pac Nor barrel that is coming in is my last effort.
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Last edited by TonyT on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TonyT,
Please check your load for N310. 1.7g is very hot, that is the load for a 85g projectile.
(98g projectile 1.3g to 1.4 max)
http://www.lapua.com/view_reload_tables ... d=products
Please check your load for N310. 1.7g is very hot, that is the load for a 85g projectile.
(98g projectile 1.3g to 1.4 max)
http://www.lapua.com/view_reload_tables ... d=products
To back up David's comment, my experience with 'fast' powders in .32SWL is that the pressures increases definitely are not linear as the loads get bigger and a small increase can (will?) produce bejazus effects. Even with a spare barrel and upper in the safe as spares I would not risk my GSP with loads that hot.
32 long loads
It is important to remember that some of the loads that you can find for the 32 Smith&Wesson long are for revolvers and not specifically a European match gun. I don't load any V powder but your table shows 2 and 1.9 as the max load for an 85 and 98. I think however that 854 fps is too fast for anything but a revolver.
David,David M wrote:TonyT,
Please check your load for N310. 1.7g is very hot, that is the load for a 85g projectile.
(98g projectile 1.3g to 1.4 max)
http://www.lapua.com/view_reload_tables ... d=products
This page does not seem to agree with you:
http://www.lapua.com/view_reload_tables ... d=products
It shows the 98g bullet as ranging from 1.4 to 1.9.
BTW, I pulled the bullet from a factory 98g Lapua round and weighed the charge at 1.55g. It certainly appears to be N310. If you extrapolate the math, their 240m/s number agrees with the 1.55 load. And, I verified the velocity at about 787 f/s.
On a related note, the factory round does seem "hot" to me. It makes me wonder if this kind of velocity if required with the twist rates typically found in European pistols.
Stan
The factory round is at the hot end at about 1.5g n310.
But a loading 1.7g N310 on a 85g projectile will belt the hell out of a GSP in no time.
The sweet load for the GSP is 1.4g N310 on a 98g hollow base wadcutter at 720-730 fps. (1.5g starts to slam the slide).
1.3g N310 was OK for ISSF (25m) but not 50yd (service).
A cast 90g worked well at 1.4g N310 but be careful with the bullet size and sizing/expander die (32s&w long varies from .310 to .314).
But a loading 1.7g N310 on a 85g projectile will belt the hell out of a GSP in no time.
The sweet load for the GSP is 1.4g N310 on a 98g hollow base wadcutter at 720-730 fps. (1.5g starts to slam the slide).
1.3g N310 was OK for ISSF (25m) but not 50yd (service).
A cast 90g worked well at 1.4g N310 but be careful with the bullet size and sizing/expander die (32s&w long varies from .310 to .314).
David,David M wrote:The factory round is at the hot end at about 1.5g n310.
But a loading 1.7g N310 on a 85g projectile will belt the hell out of a GSP in no time.
The sweet load for the GSP is 1.4g N310 on a 98g hollow base wadcutter at 720-730 fps. (1.5g starts to slam the slide).
1.3g N310 was OK for ISSF (25m) but not 50yd (service).
A cast 90g worked well at 1.4g N310 but be careful with the bullet size and sizing/expander die (32s&w long varies from .310 to .314).
Thanks for the info. I am in the final stages of load development for a HP-E, and I'll make sure I give both the 1.3 and 1.4 loads a try.
Stan
Stan
I am doing it all again for a hammarli SP20rrs ,it slugs in at .314".
Finished making a new neck sizer die at .314 (factory are .312) and using a 90g cast projectile (HBWC are nil stock at the moment) with 1.8g trailboss powder.
Trailboss gives a better case/powder density, being bulky it fills the case more and gives very consistant loads. I did have to modify the powder thrower to throw it evenly.
I am doing it all again for a hammarli SP20rrs ,it slugs in at .314".
Finished making a new neck sizer die at .314 (factory are .312) and using a 90g cast projectile (HBWC are nil stock at the moment) with 1.8g trailboss powder.
Trailboss gives a better case/powder density, being bulky it fills the case more and gives very consistant loads. I did have to modify the powder thrower to throw it evenly.
- Attachments
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- 98g HBWC, 1.7g Trailboss, 25m with Tesro pistol free standing ISSF centrefire match.
David,David M wrote:Stan
I am doing it all again for a hammarli SP20rrs ,it slugs in at .314".
Finished making a new neck sizer die at .314 (factory are .312) and using a 90g cast projectile (HBWC are nil stock at the moment) with 1.8g trailboss powder.
Trailboss gives a better case/powder density, being bulky it fills the case more and gives very consistant loads. I did have to modify the powder thrower to throw it evenly.
Thanks very much for the info. Using N310 does have the disadvantage of leaving a good bit of space in the case. I have zero experience with Trailboss, but maybe I should give it a try. I haven't checked, but it may be less expensive than N310.
What modification did you make to your powder measure? I'm using a Dillon XL650 with the x-small bar.
Stan
.32 wadcutter accuracy
I said I wouldn’t try again at 50 yards until I got a new barrel but I got bored and decided to try something else. I ordered some H&N .314 HBWC’s. I should have listened to Dave Wilson’s recommendation in an earlier post but I didn’t have the confidence in swaged HBWC’s like I did in the old days and the reason is because a lot of firms are now using lead that reads about 10 to 12 BHN for their swaged bullets. The H&N’s however are pure lead as it’s BHN was around 5 when I checked the box that I just bought. The whole idea of a HBWC is for it to be soft in the first place. The old Star’s that we all loved were pure lead until close to when they shut down and although I never experienced bad bullets from them, a lot of my friends complained that the bullets at the end weren’t as good as earlier.
I tried Power Pistol and Russian Unique, loading 2.0 and 2.2 of the power pistol and 1.7 and 1.8 of the Russian. I got excellent groups but bad flyers like I so often got before. This time I watched each shot and kept track of the brass that made the bad shot. I was looking for a different inside diameter thinking this was swaging the bullet down but found out that the problem was more simple than that. The Lapua cases I was using were all different length. Then I went and checked some new cases and they vary around .004. The used cased were as bad as .006 different. After trimming all the cases to the recommended length and shooting the same loads again, I got all four loads to shoot 10 shots in from 2 1/8 to 2 ½ inches center to center at 50 yards. I have to go load up some more and try it again because I have many times gotten 1, 10 shot group to look promising making me think I knew what I was doing and then come back and it not be so good especially counting flyers. This may have been from accidently picking cases that were close to all the same length and the next time getting the odd ones but this time all four groups were good with no flyers. Most of the time when I got a decent group I was using CBC brass and I went and checked them and most were close to the correct length compared to the Lapua group. This is the first time I have had a problem with straight wall pistol brass. I ignore 38’s, 45’s and 9mm and can get excellent groups with mixed brass. It seems that it is certainly a persnickety caliber. I’ll still try the new barrel when it comes in to see if it is even more accurate but I am satisfied if it will do this consistently. My friends are all going to trim their brass and try some of my H&N’s to pin this down even more. When they report back, I’ll post if it made a difference. Bear in mind that it is necessary to resize before you measure or trim because it makes quite a difference in length.
I tried Power Pistol and Russian Unique, loading 2.0 and 2.2 of the power pistol and 1.7 and 1.8 of the Russian. I got excellent groups but bad flyers like I so often got before. This time I watched each shot and kept track of the brass that made the bad shot. I was looking for a different inside diameter thinking this was swaging the bullet down but found out that the problem was more simple than that. The Lapua cases I was using were all different length. Then I went and checked some new cases and they vary around .004. The used cased were as bad as .006 different. After trimming all the cases to the recommended length and shooting the same loads again, I got all four loads to shoot 10 shots in from 2 1/8 to 2 ½ inches center to center at 50 yards. I have to go load up some more and try it again because I have many times gotten 1, 10 shot group to look promising making me think I knew what I was doing and then come back and it not be so good especially counting flyers. This may have been from accidently picking cases that were close to all the same length and the next time getting the odd ones but this time all four groups were good with no flyers. Most of the time when I got a decent group I was using CBC brass and I went and checked them and most were close to the correct length compared to the Lapua group. This is the first time I have had a problem with straight wall pistol brass. I ignore 38’s, 45’s and 9mm and can get excellent groups with mixed brass. It seems that it is certainly a persnickety caliber. I’ll still try the new barrel when it comes in to see if it is even more accurate but I am satisfied if it will do this consistently. My friends are all going to trim their brass and try some of my H&N’s to pin this down even more. When they report back, I’ll post if it made a difference. Bear in mind that it is necessary to resize before you measure or trim because it makes quite a difference in length.
Re: .32 wadcutter accuracy
That's interesting. While trying to eliminate the flyer issue with my HP (which IMO is more related to bullet diameter vs. bore diameter than anything else), I standardized everything I could in the reloading process. Included in this was the brass selection.oldcaster wrote:The Lapua cases I was using were all different length. Then I went and checked some new cases and they vary around .004.
After carefully weighing and measuring multiple brands of .32 brass, I selected Lapua. It was far more dimensionally consistent than any other brand of brass I could find.
BTW, one thing to be sure of is to slug your barrel with a soft slug of lead or soft swaged bullet. Do not use a hard cast bullet for checking the bore diameter. It will not give you a true measurement.
Once you know the bore diameter, a swaged HBWC .001 larger than the bore diameter should perform well.
Stan
32 accuracy
IP Shooter,
I do use a large homemade expander that is just a bit longer and thicker than a 100 grain HBWC so it is possible that my good experience is somewhat due to not swaging down the soft bullet as it is inserted into the case however I had flyers with everything until I trimmed. I even shot some water dropped molded bullets, so they would be real hard, to bypass this possibility. My Benelli barrel is .3135, and my expander is .3132 and the H&N bullets are .3142 in the front and about .3138 in the rear with the lube wiped off, but when we get that technical we would have to compare micrometers before those measurements are taken to heart. The difference between all the measurements is what counts. Also the skirt measurement isn't real accurate because it isn't perfectly round. They are very soft and the skirt could get out of round easily but I don't see this as a problem as long as it isn't real obvious to the naked eye. It will be more interesting to see what results my friends get when they trim and use the H&N HBWC. None of them have an oversize expander.
I do use a large homemade expander that is just a bit longer and thicker than a 100 grain HBWC so it is possible that my good experience is somewhat due to not swaging down the soft bullet as it is inserted into the case however I had flyers with everything until I trimmed. I even shot some water dropped molded bullets, so they would be real hard, to bypass this possibility. My Benelli barrel is .3135, and my expander is .3132 and the H&N bullets are .3142 in the front and about .3138 in the rear with the lube wiped off, but when we get that technical we would have to compare micrometers before those measurements are taken to heart. The difference between all the measurements is what counts. Also the skirt measurement isn't real accurate because it isn't perfectly round. They are very soft and the skirt could get out of round easily but I don't see this as a problem as long as it isn't real obvious to the naked eye. It will be more interesting to see what results my friends get when they trim and use the H&N HBWC. None of them have an oversize expander.
I believe that the flyer in .32 is caused by case neck release tension giving variations in velocity and timing of release of the projectile from the case.
If you mix your cases, not only can they be different sizes, but different wall thickness and brass stiffness.
Batch to brand, age and number of reloads , then check trim length.
For a big competition I will only use new brass, regional comps 2 to 3 times reloaded and club/training all old reloads.
If you mix your cases, not only can they be different sizes, but different wall thickness and brass stiffness.
Batch to brand, age and number of reloads , then check trim length.
For a big competition I will only use new brass, regional comps 2 to 3 times reloaded and club/training all old reloads.
32 long accuracy
None of these issues matter when shooting 9's, 45's or 38's. Mixed cases and lengths, different loads and powders and it is still possible to shoot tight groups with relative ease as long as a good bullet is used and the guns are up to the challenge. The .32 is a bit diabolical in comparison. I think bullets rarely vary in diameter and they would have to a lot to cause flyers. I do have some old National 100 grain HBWC swaged 32's, that vary in diameter but I got the wise idea to sit there and pick and measure to see if groups improved. They didn't and I still got flyers. They were also of a BHN of 18 which I think is too hard. The flyers didn't disappear until I trimmed the cases. Now I could go out and try all the bullets that I discounted because they all had flyers before I started trimming but there isn't a lot of point considering how well the H&N's shot with a stock barrel without really working up a load. Basically, the definition of a good bullet is one the gun likes but in this case without trimming it didn't like any. It seems that the brass is growing at about .0005 a shot so some of the brass probably was shot 10 to 15 times.
32 Crimp
Greetings Oldcaster,
Do you use a roll or taper crimp?
I have been using a taper crimp (0.325", measured at mouth) with good results. I have never measured my brass for length, I just shoot and reload it until it splits.
With kind regards,
Dave Wilson
Do you use a roll or taper crimp?
I have been using a taper crimp (0.325", measured at mouth) with good results. I have never measured my brass for length, I just shoot and reload it until it splits.
With kind regards,
Dave Wilson
I use a Dillon HR Crimp die. I don't know if they label that roll or taper but I would call it inbetween leaning to a roll crimp. Maybe the R means roll. I don't crimp any more than necessary to get it to feed. Probably your using a taper crimp negates the worry about length.
I too use the brass until it splits which means I get quite a few shots. As I posted earlier, I thought about getting a sizing die that doesn't size as much as the Lee sizer I am using now but I might not have to use the larger expander now which would make the tight Lee not matter. Sometimes though I think that once I have success, why experiment further to prove anything. I asked a top notch bench rest shooter at St. Louis Bench Rest Club about whether a certain prep really made a difference and he replied that he couldn't take the chance and it would take too many rounds to prove the difference. Still that's what makes this fun. I have a 9mm Beretta FS that a friend did a bunch to, to make it accurate just waiting for me to prove that lead bullets can be worthwhile in it.
I too use the brass until it splits which means I get quite a few shots. As I posted earlier, I thought about getting a sizing die that doesn't size as much as the Lee sizer I am using now but I might not have to use the larger expander now which would make the tight Lee not matter. Sometimes though I think that once I have success, why experiment further to prove anything. I asked a top notch bench rest shooter at St. Louis Bench Rest Club about whether a certain prep really made a difference and he replied that he couldn't take the chance and it would take too many rounds to prove the difference. Still that's what makes this fun. I have a 9mm Beretta FS that a friend did a bunch to, to make it accurate just waiting for me to prove that lead bullets can be worthwhile in it.