Peter Skov wrote:I haven't heard any arguments that could convince me that the clothing rule worth anything, other than annoying the shooters.
It really depends whether you think there is any benfit in making the competitors at top international matches (the ones most likely to receive interest from the media) look more like serious sports men and woman than has often been the case in the past.
David Levene wrote:It really depends whether you think there is any benefit in making the competitors at top international matches (the ones most likely to receive interest from the media) look more like serious sports men and woman than has often been the case in the past.
That is a silly argument, and one that seems blissfully bereft of actually *looking* at the aforementioned competitors, instead of reharping a cliché without base.
Many pistol shooters of either gender have been wearing jeans and either a tee-shirt, polo shirt or tracksuit jacket, depending upon weather. This normal and sports(wo)manlike attire has done nothing to make them look *less* athlete-like, as any look at the many ISSF finals videos will ably show. Forbidding jeans and demanding national uniform in competition (ceremonies are a different affair altogether!) is both silly and illegal. It is illegal because it goes beyond the licit scope of an "interpretation" and would need a formal rule change.
Alexander wrote:This normal and sports(wo)manlike attire has done nothing to make them look *less* athlete-like, as any look at the many ISSF finals videos will ably show.
That is a matter of personal opinion. Some would obviously disagree with you.
JSBmatch wrote:Does any body know if the ISSF 'archers' wear special clothing/shoes etc.
JSB
I've never heard about ISSF'archers, I'm a (former) FITA archer myself.
And we had once a strict dress code, but it was well defined, and nothing to doubt.
That is the problem whit at phrase like sporting clothes.
In archery the demands were, white trousers, and a shirt (T /Sweat) also in white, or your national colours.
It really depends whether you think there is any benfit in making the competitors at top international matches (the ones most likely to receive interest from the media) look more like serious sports men and woman than has often been the case in the past.
And a fat guy in tracksuit trousers, holding a pistol, is displaying a real athlete?
I hate to shoot in tracksuits, but it seems to be the only "safe" ting to wear.
How many athletes are actually complaining? Athletes being people who have actually SHOT OR COACHED during an ISSF event since the rule was put into effect.
I am almost positive most rifle shooters, at least, do not have a problem with this. Pistol shooters just wear your countries warm ups, and I am not aware of shotgunners having such problems.
Yes, it is a rule now. Would you rather wear the proper clothing or be arrogant and get a penalty? Don't look like a slob when competing and intelligent outsiders will not treat you like one.
The boot/walking issue shouldn't be a problem. If you don't use shoe stretchers or anything you should. Just walk normal, they wont permanently bend by walking 10 feet. Put them in a flattener of some sort when storing them so they don't keep bending over time.
Please refrain from responding unless you have actually personally experienced a problem with the dress codes.
Guest (whoever you are), you seem to be missing the point.
This type of thing can and will turn people off ISSF style of shooting as other forms of shooting are more accomodating. These people could be the future olympians but if they are put off at the start, then we will never know.
ISSF isn't exactly blasting ahead with growth in case you haven't noticed.
Anonymous wrote:Please refrain from responding unless you have actually personally experienced a problem with the dress codes.
Dear guest, please refrain from responding unless you have actually read the ridiculous new interpretation carefully (the rule as such remains the same, unchanged) and have understood *why* and as to which aspects athletes are concerned about it. Thank you.
Anonymous wrote:The boot/walking issue shouldn't be a problem. If you don't use shoe stretchers or anything you should. Just walk normal, they wont permanently bend by walking 10 feet. Put them in a flattener of some sort when storing them so they don't keep bending over time.
There is nothing in the new dress code, the document being discussed here, about shooting boots.
That is covered in the ISSF's Rifle Clothing Statement issued in February; a document clearly intended to explain how the existing rules should be interpreted. As such it seems to tighten up some of the areas where shooters have been pushing the rules to the limit (and sometimes beyond). Whether the rules themselves are right or wrong is another matter.
j-team- I have experienced and seen the new rules being enforced at a World Cup. If someone is truly turned off from ISSF style shooting because of it, they aren't that serious anyway because trust me, the new dress code is only a blip on the radar as far as what the competing athletes are complaining about. The athletes competing in ISSF competitions don't worry about it and the viewers whether new or experienced either 1) don't notice it to begin with or 2) think it does in fact add more legitimacy to the sport's athletes.
Alexander- I have read, I have followed, and I have seen the new dress code enforced. It isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. If you took a picture of people wearing jeans, camo hats, ect., then took a picture of people in their warmups and country's uniforms I guarantee you more people will find the latter more appealing.
Mr. Levene- I am aware that the shooting boot "penguin march" is a separate part of the rules. I also read earlier in this forum that people were complaining about walking normal because their boots would bend. I am saying if you just store your bots properly then you have nothing to worry about as far as boots breaking down on you.
Anonymous wrote:Mr. Levene- I am aware that the shooting boot "penguin march" is a separate part of the rules. I also read earlier in this forum that people were complaining about walking normal because their boots would bend. I am saying if you just store your bots properly then you have nothing to worry about as far as boots breaking down on you.
Agreed, as I do with the other parts of your post.
I was just trying to indicate that the rifle clothing statement was a different document from, and probably much less contentious than, the dress code.
As an example, there has been a requirement for many years for the sole of a rifle shooting boot to be flexible at the ball of the foot. Some rifle shooters did not seem to recognise the "spirit and intent" of that rule so clarification was required. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the flexibility is subject to more scientific specification and testing in the future.
I was at the USA World Cup and there were complaints about the dress code interpretations from many athletes from a few different countries. Our females were warned about there beige cotton pants (typical business attire in North America) once they were told they were jeans then latter it was because the pockets on the back were sewn on top and these are now interpreted as patches. When anyone with an once of brain matter knows the intent of the rule was not to ban pockets sewn on the outside but to ensure athletes didn't wear pants with holes covered with patches.
I'm sure you views guest would mean much more if they were tied to your identity.
As for your other issue regarding rifle clothing which is a separate issue, there were some grumbling about it, but it does harken back the Monty Python skit regarding the Ministry of Silly Walks. Now for something completely different, which were you actually effected by as you seem to comment on both, yet ask only those that were effected by them to comment on them.
In the end if the ISSF thinks track suits are going to save the sport then change the rules the proper way with the proper votes and make the new rule say everyone will wear track suits. They shouldn't be writing new rules by changing the interpretations.
No one should knowingly break the rules to make their point but I fear some will be subject to some arbitrary interpretation at the World Championships where they were threatening to start enforcing the "new" interpretations of the existing rules.
Richard H-
1) I do agree with you on the skirts and such being labelled jeans. Those were the only complaints I noticed while I was there which I believe were completely legitimate. Of course you might have seen more than I did, but I only saw the problem regarding the jury members labeling regular dress clothes as jeans.
The problem with the rule is the jury members' interpretations which lead to problems like the one mentioned and should be formally addressed.
2) what does my identity matter? I've experienced it and thats what counts.
talladega-
So you're saying with the new rule in effect we should have a line up of everyone who wears jeans and have them fully inspected to ensure there are no holes in their jeans?
Like you so elegantly put, there are other clothes than jeans. Buy some appropriate ones and wear them to these events.
