positive approach

[jackh]

Can't argue with that approach at all. But the error in stating it is assuming that the shooter actually knows what is positive.

[lastman]

Good point.

Basically anything that talks about a desire to do something is a positive statement.

For example
Positive = I want to smoothly press the trigger.
Negative = I gotta stop snatching the trigger.

What ever you think over and over will happen. If you think about doing the right action i.e. smooth press it will happen. If you think about the negative action i.e. snatch trigger it will happen as well.

[Guest]

Even more positive; I will smoothly press the trigger

[joel]

Even, even more positive:

I am the trigger

:)

[jackh]

Trigger, trigger, trigger. Got that.
What else? Remember I know nothing.
(primarily pistol shooting BTW)

[2650 Plus]

Reference JOEL's comment. I can just barely get away with " I am The trigger, but prefer "My trigger finger will move steadly to the rear " And "My front sight will center in the rear sight and be level with the top of it."Just my contribution to what could be a productive conversation. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[RMinUT]

The best methods for a positive mental attitude I have been exposed to are the tapes from Lanny Bashham. The is very little actual mechanical skills talk by him, but his positive approach about how YOU look at YOUR skills will change your skills for the better.

There are no shortcuts to developing the mechanical skills.


don't worry, be happy.....

[robf]

The is very little actual mechanical skills talk by him, but his positive approach about how YOU look at YOUR skills will change your skills for the better.

a core philosophy of coaching, the shooter drives the process, the coach exposes the possible routes to improvement.

i have found that shooters that rely on instruction rather than coaching can have more problems obtaining a good mental attitude under pressure because they have less ownership of the improvement path.

[Richard H]

The is very little actual mechanical skills talk by him, but his positive approach about how YOU look at YOUR skills will change your skills for the better.

a core philosophy of coaching, the shooter drives the process, the coach exposes the possible routes to improvement.

i have found that shooters that rely on instruction rather than coaching can have more problems obtaining a good mental attitude under pressure because they have less ownership of the improvement path.

Favouring any method over another is a mistake, athletes are individuals and they all learn and respond differently. Usually if coaches find that a method works better than another it could just as easily be because the coach is better at teaching that method. This is the same reason that the coach athlete relationship is so important, unfortunately every coach won't be suited to every athlete and this only gets more pronounced as athlete's progress.

[Richard H]

Even, even more positive:

I am the trigger

:)

Visions of Karl the grounds keeper, "be the ball".

[RobStubbs]

a core philosophy of coaching, the shooter drives the process, the coach exposes the possible routes to improvement.

i have found that shooters that rely on instruction rather than coaching can have more problems obtaining a good mental attitude under pressure because they have less ownership of the improvement path.

Favouring any method over another is a mistake, athletes are individuals and they all learn and respond differently. Usually if coaches find that a method works better than another it could just as easily be because the coach is better at teaching that method. This is the same reason that the coach athlete relationship is so important, unfortunately every coach won't be suited to every athlete and this only gets more pronounced as athlete's progress.

I tend to agree with RobFs comments. Instruction is just one aspect of coaching, and in most instances a small part. I tend to see it as the coach helps guide the shooter both when they have areas to work, which includes helping to identify them and in terms of keeping them on the right path. Sometimes equally shooters 'forget' their skills and processes and fall back into bad habits, especially in times of stress or when struggling.

Certainly no method suits all, but there's a finite limit to where you'll get to with instruction alone, and that limit is underneath where you could get to with good coaching.

Rob.

[RMinUT]

a core philosophy of coaching, the shooter drives the process, the coach exposes the possible routes to improvement.

i have found that shooters that rely on instruction rather than coaching can have more problems obtaining a good mental attitude under pressure because they have less ownership of the improvement path.[/quote]

I agree Rob. I feel that's why Bashhams tapes are so effective. He doesn't instruct, he emphasis' a positive, systematic approach to everything. A person can teach themself many things with a positive mindset, we all have an internal teaching ability. A positive approach will do wonders, a negative approach will ruin even good coaching and instruction.

The mechanical skills of shooting take time, some are fortunate enough to break a shot process down and execute it perfectly faster than others BUT a positive mental approach can begin from the very first training session.

Cheers,
Robert

[RMinUT]

The is very little actual mechanical skills talk by him, but his positive approach about how YOU look at YOUR skills will change your skills for the better.

a core philosophy of coaching, the shooter drives the process, the coach exposes the possible routes to improvement.

i have found that shooters that rely on instruction rather than coaching can have more problems obtaining a good mental attitude under pressure because they have less ownership of the improvement path.

Favouring any method over another is a mistake, athletes are individuals and they all learn and respond differently. Usually if coaches find that a method works better than another it could just as easily be because the coach is better at teaching that method. This is the same reason that the coach athlete relationship is so important, unfortunately every coach won't be suited to every athlete and this only gets more pronounced as athlete's progress.

Richard,
are you saying that some shooters NEED a negative approach. This topic is about a positive approach. Yes, every coach/athlete relationship is different but are you advocating that some are best when they are negative? please explain.

[Richard H]

Not what I said nor meant, not going to waste my time arguing with you about it.

[Guest]

richard,
I take it a Christmas card is not forthcoming?

[Richard H]

richard,
I take it a Christmas card is not forthcoming?

Nope not this year.

[luftskytter-]

I sorta like this thread :-)

A couple of related thoughts:

Being afraid of talking/thinking about "negative things" is negative and means there's a damaging lack of courage. Analyzing your mistakes may be a good way of finding a better way. A firm belief based on analysis and knowledge is important when choosing the right way to do things. Then you can focus!
Coaches that don't know why one method is better for you than another makes it hard to decide. This turned me away from competition and made me more interested in "research" than personal scores. This has been quite rewarding :-)

The most negative and damaging thing in my shooting career was establishing bad habits. This has mostly been due to a lack of good coaching. If somebody helps you stop this before it becomes "a part of you", you should be very thankful.

I never had the time or patience to be a practicing coach taking long term responsibility for developing other shooters, just a pretty good troubleshooting instructor. NOT being a talented "natural" is a good way of learning this through personal struggle and experience! Making others succeed is fun.

My favourite approach with beginners is to give simple basic instruction and letting them try while observing. Then you keep your mouth shut about the things they do right and try to give positive advice related to one or two main problem areas. Remember they can't absorb a lot of information while trying to do something new!

The same basic approach just may work for "advanced" shooters too......

[SMBeyer]

I'd like to agree with the positive aproach. Tonight I shot a sixty shot "match" here at home. With each shot as I was coming down into my aiming area I said to myself "front sight, squeeze, follow thru, ten." I did this with every shot and also between shots. Maybee I was just having a good night but I was able to focus on the front sight really well tonight and shot a new personal best score. I put the scope away and wasn't able to score between shots and just concentrated on the next one. Even when I could see there was a shot say outside the nine ring I would look at a shot I new was a good ten and say " lets do that again." Seemed to work for me tonight and also more fun to shoot that way than yelling at yourself because you shot an eight!
Scott

[2650 Plus]

What is the goal ? Is it to shoot as near perfect shots every time that you can? My belief is that one should strive to learn from the best result you can produce. After all, you are not trying to shoot poor shots are you ? My shooting taught me that Lanny Bashams teaching that he described as " the ultimate you " is the truest and fastest way to a winning performance. Spending time agonizing over the bad shot takes time away from your goal and can be destructive. Could this be the origin of the dreaded chicken finger ? Shoot tens my friends and spend your time figuring out how you do that. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[robf]

the ten is only a result. It doesn't mean the shot was good. I was shoulder to shoulder with a shooting partner and he slipped on the trigger and put a 9.5 in with his eyes not even behind the sights. He got the giggles. I got the giggles and stuck a 4 in.

When looking at consistency, you need to look at what's wrong in order to compare to what's right. The positive approach is to say you got it right 7/10 times rather than you got it wrong 3 times.

A further approach is the old sandwich. Positive point, negative point, positive point.

Using cold analytical methods it's hard to avoid seeing the problems if done right, but that doesn't stop positives being seen or used, especially if the shooter is open and objective (which I think is something to be encouraged). I reviewed some video with a shooter the other week, and despite there being a huge goal failure on one point, there was relief that another aspect was actually surpassing expectation. I didn't need to expose or reveal the positives, because the shooter did it themselves.

For me, I prefer to avoid emotion from the process, and concentrate on the process itself. It becomes easier then, and if the process your looking at is so simple, it often doesn't need the mental crook behind it. I would much prefer a shooter was obsessed with trying to achieve their process goals than worrying what the score is/was or how they feel, and I find it a very good productive distraction. If the processes are simple, then there becomes less apprehension about being able to achieve them as well.