SCATT time points

[joecon]

I’ve just purchased a SCATT system and am trying to get familiar with what it is telling me. The manual supplied is limited in the information provided; I have also read Scott Shaffer’s “How to Use and Interpret Scatt Data Acquisition“ for additional information. I would like to understand the timings involved for 10m AP (Steyr LP-10) & applying these to the traces displayed by system. As I see it there are the following time points- working backwards;
Ta; Pellet strikes target
Tb; Pellet leaves muzzle
Tc; Pellet starts to move in barrel
Td; Mechanism emits ‘click’
Te; Trigger sear disengages
Tf; Start of 2nd stage trigger action

If Ta is 0 (zero), I figure Tb would be approx. -60ms (LP-10 550 ft/s), what would be the values for the other points?
As I see it the SCATT systems time reference is when the 'click' of the action happens i.e. Td, but this is not the Zero time the system software uses, it appears to use Ta or Tb as it’s Zero time. How does the system get from the click time to it’s zero time, how many ms are added?

Also in the [Options] [Target] menu there is ‘Enable trace heading’ – what is this used to indicate?
As always thanks, Joe.

[Patrick Haynes]

I’ve just purchased a SCATT system and am trying to get familiar with what it is telling me. The manual supplied is limited in the information provided;

Hi Joe.

Congratulations on your purchase. The SCATT is a great tool. I have one and have been using it with my athletes for a few years now.

Here's my advice: it isn't a shooting simulator and won't tell you anything about your shooting per se. Now, it tells you all sorts of stuff, but I can't imagine what you're trying to glean with the data elements that you've referenced.

When I initially run an athlete through a SCATT session, I'm assessing delivery. The trace itself tells me a great deal about their level of sophistication as a shooter.

Mainly, I'm capturing arbitrary metrics that indicate performance factors. For instance, trace length (metric) indicates what the athlete's hold (performance factor) is like. I can look at the benchmark session, determine the athlete's minimum, maximum and average trace lengths. I'll look to see if it is consistent or if it deteriorates over the match.

Similarly, I'll capture aim time, 10.0. 10a0 and aiming error.

From these indicative numbers, I set training goals for future sessions, assign appropriate drills and exercises, and after time, re-assess using the same methods. The assumption is that by improving (i.e. reducing trace length and aiming error) these indicative metrics, then the athlete's match performance will improve. Usually, this is true.

As well, I'll look at the distance graphs to identify triggering problems.

I'll inspect where they are aiming, looking for a visual indication of aiming area consistency.

If the situation warrants, I'll look at timing interval of shots.

I've found that working with skilled high performance athletes, the SCATT is an invaluable diagnotic tool. Just don't get hung up in the details. Spend your time training with it.

I hope that helps.

Take care.
Patrick Haynes

[Marcus]

All of that time from Td to Ta is incorporated into the F-coefficient. Scatt does use the "click" time of Td as the reference and then uses the F-coefficient to compensate for that delay of the shot arriving at the target. If you want to shoot with a laser-type gun (no delay) set the F-coefficient to zero (0).

This probably won't make much difference for you since you shoot pistol, but you can also fine tune the value for the F-coefficient by live firing at the same time you are using the Scatt system. After getting well sighted-in (rested on a bench), adjust the F-coefficient until the real Scatt shot holes match the real holes in the target.

The only thing you need to do is change the value of the F-coeeficient for each training session so your results will be consistent and can be compared.

Enable aiming trace heading only provides a red leader on the aiming trace to help you see the trace, especially if you are holding in the same small area. Green on green is hard to see!

Marcus

[David Levene]

Joe

Don't try using Scott Shaffer’s explanation of the f-coefficient.

F-coefficient is a constant. F-coefficient means "the efficiency of the flight of a projectile" this is affected by a number of factors that include things such as the temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, the amount of dust particles in the air, the speed and direction of the movements of the firearm caused by pulse and nerve related movements, the medium of propulsion, the amount of pressure created by the propulsion medium and the velocity of the projectile.

All these things affect how a projectile flies through the air and the Scatt software program calculates this. This calculation is based on Scatt's database of over 400,000 shots done both electronically and live at the same time.

He, like the rest of us, believed the BS that Scatt were giving out a few years ago. Those who have made a much closer study than have I of the raw data produced by Scatt assure me that the f-coefficient is purely time based. It is interesting that Scatt now totally ignore questions regarding their old (withdrawn) explanation of the f-coefficient.

[joecon]

Thanks all for replies. It does appear to be a great tool, I am currently using it to 'help' another shooter who will move into international competition soon - but it's a case of 'the almost completely blind leading the blind' at moment 8-)

Patrick, my question was really about getting one or more reference points on the time plots. I now take it that the Zero time in traces & graphs is the time at which the 'click' is registered by the system?
I have seen it written that one of the complications in shooting AP (& AR for that matter) well, is the relatively long barrel time; if this is the case then it appears that when I assess the hold & the effect of trigger release I should include some amount of time past Zero time - so what additional time will 'lock' & 'barrel time' amount to? (I've googled but found no values; is it 10's or 100's of mS?) . My view would be after Tzero + X (this additional time) movement of pistol will have no effect on shot placement so need not be considered.
I'm not too worried about having the scatt & live fire coincide but an F value of 11 seems to be quite close, on the limited live firing we have done.

During my investigations I have today obtained from Noptel two documents on 'Technical analysis of shooting performance' based on their training systems which appear to have some good information in them which can be applied to any system. Should anyone wish to get these, contact Noptel (info@noptel.fi), or PM me.

Also I have used the SCATT-SDK .vbs files to extract the individual shot positional information from the .scatt file & save in text format ( the y values are/were inverse for some reason), should this be of any interest to anyone.

Joe.