TargetTalk

What kind of 22 ammo are the Russians using? Years back it was available in the States, but I hav'nt seen it for years. It would come in a wooden crate with 6,000 rounds instead of the normal 5,000 rounds we get here. Shot great in my IZH35m.

Rob wrote:What kind of 22 ammo are the Russians using? Years back it was available in the States, but I hav'nt seen it for years. It would come in a wooden crate with 6,000 rounds instead of the normal 5,000 rounds we get here. Shot great in my IZH35m.

You're right... wooden crates with 6.000 rounds inside (12 blocks, every block contains 10 packs, every pack contains 50 cartridges = TOTAL 6.000).

OK. What kind of ammo we're using?
Here's some levels of shooters:

1) National Team uses: ELEY, Olymp, LAPUA... (high rated foreign cartridges, BUT "Olymp" is russian high level ammo, which is made by little batchs personally(!) for concrete(!) shooter - but in current days, as I've heard, Olymp is produced for all).

2) Shooters "near" to National Team: Olymp, Temp (Rifle/Pistol), Sniper (R/P)

3) Middle level shooters, beginners and others use: odds and ends of USSR times. These remains are made of brass or steel (shell). Names are: Celevie, Temp, Yunior, Sport-Okhota... etc.

4) Main cartridges for RFP were: "Siluet" and "Siluet M"


About paragraph 3: "ex-USSR remains" are cartridges wich were made in 1980-1991. For example: I shoot FP with Sport-Okhota (steel shell) which were produced in 1987. I don't want to say that I'm satisfied.. but... no other varinats. Club haven't budget for new cartridges (and club has about 1.000.000 rounds "ex-USSR remains" in our storehouse). If I have money myself for new cartridges then I haven't right to buy cartridges for me: only officials (with license) can do it.
But for competitons, our coach gives us "good" cartridges: Temp or Sniper (1993-1999).
Nevertheless, with cartridges of 1987 I could do 87,...,...94 at FP without any problem and misfires.

Thanks for the info. I used Junior "brass" and liked it a lot but the supplies dried up over here. I got some Junior"steel case", and that ammo was very unreliable. I have 4 Baikal guns. My Toz35m and Biathlon 7-2 were both made in 1991 and are marked CCCP, and my two IZH35m's were made in 1994 and are marked "Made in Russia". They all work well.

Rob wrote:Thanks for the info. I used Junior "brass" and liked it a lot but the supplies dried up over here. I got some Junior"steel case", and that ammo was very unreliable. I have 4 Baikal guns. My Toz35m and Biathlon 7-2 were both made in 1991 and are marked CCCP, and my two IZH35m's were made in 1994 and are marked "Made in Russia". They all work well.

Wow. Whole arsenal!! ;-)

Yeah, you're lucky there.
I've seen "Bowling for Columbine" film by Michael Moore.

Your Arms Laws are so liberal!


I've heard one idea here... Russian Shooting Union wants to introduce new Law: sportsman (with more than 7 years of expierence) can possess sportarms.".
But I don't hope...

its called Freedom

and we have far less of it than we used to and its getting less almost daily.

we also have freedom of press and speech (mostly) which allows lying, hate-filled propogandists like that idiot Moore to try to influence our gullible public and political system to take away OTHER peoples freedom. I am boycotting that "film" but I heard it is full of dis-information.

but this forum is a place to talk about happy things, like SHOOTING not nauseating things like politics.

I looked at those pictures you posted Ruig, it looked VERY interesting! I don't think I've ever seen a pistol match that well attended (although our National Championships in US style shooting, at a place called Camp Perry Ohio has 1300+ rifle shooters and nearly as many pistol shooters, our national championships for international shooting is not nearly as well attended, more like your club match in the photos)

By the way, Americans don't have "arsenals" we have "collections"!

a small collection is when you have fewer guns than you are years of age.

Most of my friends have large collections! :)

come visit some time!

Later

Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/

Hello, Ruig (if that is your name).

I enjoy reading your posts! You give small glimses of the life of competition shooters from behind the "curtain". Interesting.

I do not know your age, Ruig, but you probably know this (for us) strange ammo:

Back in the late 70s Soviet .22 ammo was offered from a Sportsstore "syndicate" at bargain prices in my country. The cost was about half that of british or US .22 ammo.
I bought one wooden case (with large wooden handles). It contained two sealed metal boxes (military green in color). These large "tin cans" contained 2800 rds each, a total of 5600 rounds pr. case. A peculiar, large tin can opener (military green too) was inletted into the underside og the wooden lid of the case!
The ammo was iron cased (not steel, sencu stricto) and the cases were black. The mouth of the case was crimped very deeply onto the heel of the bullet.
The ammo was packed 50 to the box, in a tray. The "paper" of the box was relatively soft, and had the following colors: light blue, white, and brown-yellowich. Black letering.
The iron cased ammo demanded a firm blow to the rim to ignite properly. There were malfunctions in many pistols, but accuracy was on par with other .22 ammo.

There was also offered brass cased Soviet .22 ammo, called Vostok. It was priced higher, closer to the cost of ICI/Kynoch ( Eley) ammo.

By the way, the black-iron cased ammo was nicknamed "black russian cartridges".

Cheers,

MAS

My steel case ammo says ( Klimovsk Stamping Plant). Is this the main factory for rimfire ammo?

Rob wrote:My steel case ammo says ( Klimovsk Stamping Plant). Is this the main factory for rimfire ammo?

Yes. KSPZ is almost sole sport-ammo factory in all(!) ex-USSR area.

http://www.kspz.ru/

There is pricelist (You can compare prices,... for example...):

http://www.kspz.ru/eng/price/price.xls


Sincerely...
I'm running away....

MAS wrote:...The "paper" of the box was relatively soft, and had the following colors: light blue, white, and brown-yellowich. Black letering.
The iron cased ammo demanded a firm blow to the rim to ignite properly. There were malfunctions in many pistols, but accuracy was on par with other .22 ammo....

Truly say, ex-USSR ammo-production had a wide range of products (once I've seen at one man a box-collection... he collected russian ammo-boxes... as I can remember there were approx. 20-30 kinds of ammo. I'll try to post a collection photo)
If you're talking about ammo, which box is signed with english words - it was export-variant, which we haven't ever seen here (in most cases).
But once I've seen old reserves... yellow/brown packs with sign "Celevie. Made in USSR" :-) Truly say - good ammo.
From our side I can say the same,... When we had a good times, my coach has bought somewhere ELEY (pistol / red box). Cool antiquarian ammo :-)... I tried it not along ago... cool... something like our "Temp", but better made & cool plastic case...

Sincerely,
Igor

Freedom was mentioned in a previous post and I wanted to make a clarification that not all shooters in the U.S. are blindly Republican.

Freedom of the press and religion are vital, something not always cherished in here in the States as we are spoiled in comparison to many nations.

Hello Igor,

I see that "Record" and "Temp" are still made. Is "Olymp" still being manufactured?

JPOC wrote:Hello Igor,

I see that "Record" and "Temp" are still made. Is "Olymp" still being manufactured?

Yes, it is...
Black&Orange plastic box. For Pistol or Rifle made. With sign on the bottom: "HIGH RESULTS ARE GUARANTEED"

Igor:

Very interesting all your post.
I live in Bolivia (South America).

Please say to me about Russian air guns pellets.
I see in the russian page two modells of pellets, one called Diablo Bullet and othe called DC Bullet.
DC Bullet is best?
Can you compare these product with which model of other brand?

Finally, the price of the productos are in RUR please tell me how many RUR are one Dollar,

Thank you,


Eduardo

nano wrote:Diablo Bullet and othe called DC Bullet.
DC Bullet is best?

I used these pellets one month, when I started to train sport shooting in the beginning of 1998.

Everything I can say: pellets in orange/white box (I don't remember name... may be "DC") is middle level... nothing in particular. It's better to forget about russian pellets for sport shooting.
Yesterday, my coach has brought to me "Alfa" pellets (made somewhere in Russia)... for test. Looks fine. But when I started to shot...hm...:
I had two groups, which were spreaded vertically. And then I ve noticed, that every pellet demands from me different efforts to push it into the chamber. No calibration at all...
Usually I use here pellets made in Germany: Diabolo Kugeln (H&N), Perfecta (UMAREX), Wettkampf Kugeln (Walther)... here we have enough in our shops...


US$ 1 = RUR 28

A post from Bolivia, Eduardo! Fine.

I have visited Bolivia on a few accations. there are some gas and oil exploration going on in the are. I believe this will improve the economy of your country, Eduardo.

I was told that the common civilians in Bolivia were not allowed to own or use any real firearm, not even for hunting. Firearms was restricted to military personel and the (ubiqitous) police force.

But up in those remote mountain areas, - I think it was called "Carangas", in the Coipasa district, (close to "minas de los todos santos") I saw some locals carrying what looked to be vintage side by side shotguns!
So even in a land practising "Total Gun Control" there are som "unrestricted areas"? (gun/hunting refuges).

I also saw the ad for russian air gun pellets. Does anybody know of any importer tu the US, UK or Europa? Do you know if these pellets are available outside Russia, "ruig"? Which pellet brands do the russian air weapon champions use, "ruig"?

Fjodor wrote:Which pellet brands do the russian air weapon champions use, "ruig"?

As I've noticed at competitions: mainly, They use "Finale Match" (H&N) and "R10" (RWS/Dynamit Nobel).

Yesterday, I've looked for a best russian 4.5 wadcutter pellets and I found one pack of "DC-M" (orange/white box)... Nevertheless, it's better to use pellets made in Germany... :-)

nano wrote:Igor:
Very interesting all your post.
I live in Bolivia (South America).

This is a great thread!
It's very interesting to read posts from shooters in (for me) remote areas of the world. Gun-laws are so different from country to country!

I live in Denmark (Northern europe) and I own these handguns:
1974 High Standard The Victor .22 (American)
1996 Pardini SP .22 (Italian target pistol)
2002 S&W 686 .38/.357 (American revolver)
2002 H&K USP Expert 9mm (German IPSC gun)
2004 STI Edge 9mm (American IPSC gun)
I also own a danisk produces Otterup .22 rifle.

I live in a country with very little crime and no real urge for gun control (as this is not an "issue"), but we're only allowed about 6 pistols and no bigger than 9mm/.357. Calibers .40 and .45 are not allowed.
Politically my country is quite different from america, here we can differ in opinion and still not stoop to malicious name-calling. I watch the Moore movies and apply simple common sense to see through the thruth-twisting and propaganda, and then the movies are quite interesting.

One of our club members is from England, Great Brittain. He's a good shot and a very nice guy, but gun ownership is not allowed in England, so he only shoots in Denmark and Spain.

The consensus about .22 ammo over here, is that the German stuff (or european) rules, most american is mainly for plinking, and the South African stuff (Swartclip) is just crap. I've never seen any russian ammo here, but we do have the russian guns!

But you really can't be sure if it's german ammo anymore, more and more boxes just say "Made in the EU" (European Union).

Fast Fumble, DK (www.uckfup.dk)

Rob wrote:Shot great in my IZH35m.

Rob, do you already know about a "little trick" with IZh35(M)?
I mean, there is a possibility to reduce recoil... doing "twice-spring system"... like Walther do... Works fine many-many years here, in my IZh35...

[quote="Claus"]I've never seen any russian ammo here, but we do have the russian guns!quote]

Claus, I think - it's normal... Why should dealers to bring ammo from overseas (from Russia)... its price will be so high, as never before (of course, if it isn't a special ammo-exchange programm :-) )... Also, the same situation here... it would be impossible for us to shot with ELEY or LAPUA here... price will be very high... only Scrudge Mc'Duck could allow him high-priced ammo...

Sincerely

ruig wrote:

Rob wrote:Shot great in my IZH35m.

Rob, do you already know about a "little trick" with IZh35(M)?
I mean, there is a possibility to reduce recoil... doing "twice-spring system"... like Walther do... Works fine many-many years here, in my IZh35...

Hello Ruig.
I am not familiar with the 'little trick' for the IZH35M. Can you provide specific information how how to do this modification? I bought a used IZH35M a few months ago and it is an excellent pistol. I do wish that the front sight were a little bit higher and the rear notch a little bit deeper. :-)

Regards,
Fred