A better way to shoot the Nationals, to increase the #'s

[Doc Sexton]

http://www.pilkguns.com/possnats.xls

Please open the above file. There are two ideas to increase the number of events shot and lessen the days necessary. These both should increase competitors at the Nationals. The first is under Sheet 1, the second is under Sheet 2

Both ways result in having a shorter U.S. Int'l Championship for PISTOL which is what 30 pistol shooter and six parents voted in favor of at the 2004 nationals. There were no votes against shorting the nationals. We need to poll the shooters that were not there. However, the overwheming vote in favor of shortening the nationals seems enough to me .

This should generate more interest in coming to the nationlas especially if it is well published.

Please voice your opinion here and to USA Shooting if you like these ideas. Ask your Bullseye friends if they would be more likely to attend if they could shoot more events in less days.


Joel Sexton

[PETE S]

My tendency is to your proposal on sheet one, just the Nationals, and use the Nationals scores for the Selection. I would like to see at least one selection match a year run on the same schedule as a World Cup. That makes for good trainingfor those on the bubble.

The fee structure also needs some adjustment to attract attendance. At $95 per match, almost $500 total for all pistol events is rather rich for me. There is a balance needed between the hotel and food expenses, plus entry fees, plus ammo, plus mics. It becomes a big bill.

[Richard Newman]

Whatever happened to center fire and standard pistol matches? So far as I know they are still part of the ISSF competition set. Shouldn't we include them in the Nationals?
Richard Newman

[Scott]

Richard, take a look at the two proposals, both include Center and Standard

[mcole95]

Looks like the dates for 2005 Nationals are finalized:

http://www.usashooting.com/news/NewsView.cfm?id=221

At 8 days total, it appears they _did_ compress the schedule in some way.

I guess we'll have to wait and see exactly how.

--Matt Cole

[pilkguns]

Event though the dates are annouced as a guideline, we still need to give USAS our opinions, as many both among competitors and USAS want to see the overall numbers of pistol competitors grow. Its very hard to begin to break even when there are so few shooters on the line. That is why we feel that this is the time to modify the schedule, immediately after the Olympics, so we have four years to benefit from the change, and with plenty of time for next year to encourage the international competitiors who have dropped out, to get back into the sport, since their cost in time and money will be much less, and they will get to put more lead down range each day.

[Richard Newman]

Scott, et al
Sorry, must be going blind from too much CRT time - or just old age. Maybe thats why I'm not shooting 590s in Air or Free... The suggested schedule looks worth trying to me. It will be tight, and leaves no room for any malfunction - mechanical, software or human - but worth trying
Richard Newman

[pilkguns]

Another thing that we hope will encourage attendance at the Nationals in conjunction with a shortend schedule. We will be offering cash prizes in a number of select events, that will more than pay for entry fees.

[Guest]

Will any of these changes spill over to Rifle?

[Chris]

Rifle numbers have declined but they are not as low as Pistol.

[Marc Orvin]

Doc,

One question about your schedule. The men's air pistol and women's sport pistol are fired at the same time. I think in the past, the schedule has allowed for junior men to shoot with the women in the sport pistol event. The two schedules you have developed don't allow for any jr men's sport pistol.

I know it will offend some folks, but I really don't see any need for jr men's sport pistol anyway. There is nowhere for the jr men to go in this sport after they are no longer jrs. Back in days of yore when it was training for the centerfire match it may have made sense. The young men would be better served by shooting free pistol or rapid fire pistol in the current system. I realize this topic is outside the scope of the discussion you started, and I didn't mean to hijack your thread. It's just something that is missing in the schedule you have developed.

One more thing. Stan Pace wrote:

One more thing I hope USAS considers is a later time for registration. At 10:00 AM, most everyone has to come in the night before just to get there in time to sign up. What that means is more vacation time and another day of hotel/car/food expenses.

I think USAS should allow folks to check in later, something more like 3 or 4 PM the day before a competitor's first match. That would allow a few folks to fly in the day before the match. They would miss their training time, but the competitors should be able to decide if it's worth the extra time and money to get there early enough just for training.

One problem with showing up at 3 or 4 PM the day before your match is that the squadding is already done by about 1 PM. If you are not checked in, you are not squadded. Squadding is done early for those who don't want to stay around all day to see where they are shooting. Personally, I don't see what difference it makes what target position you are on at 10 and 50 meters. However, if there is more than one relay, it does create a problem to not know which relay you are on. The past couple of years there have not been sufficient competitors for a second relay, so it's kind of a moot point.

For those who compete at 25 meters, it is good to have the squadding posted early. I guess it wouldn't hurt to just keep adding squads later in the day for those who register late, but it does create problems for the match staff who try to squad rapid fire in even squads with a known number of competitors.

I guess that it wouldn't really make a whole lot of difference since Stan states that the competitor would have the choice to miss their squadded training in order to save a day. In my note on the other thread where the poll is being taken, I have suggested that there should be no training allowed anyway. I think it is a waste of time and resources to train at a match. You should train at home and be ready to shoot when you get to the match. I've never been to Camp Perry, so I don't know what they do there. But any 2700 match I have ever attended, the first shot downrange of the day was a record shot. No sighters, let alone any training. I don't think that is unreasonable for this sport either. You have unlimited sighters within the time of the match at 50 and 10 meters. That should be sufficient if you have done your homework.

Marc

[Guest]

Will any of these changes spill over to Rifle?

Chris Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:29 pm
Rifle numbers have declined but they are not as low as Pistol.

But the same problems are probably out there: shooters that would like to come and be involved in the Nationals, but don't have time to come for all of the days.