POLL - USA 5-shot AP competitors?

[Steve Swartz]

Stan:

Personally, I would compete in both- having tried both. They require subtly different skills but could be shot with the same pistol (LP5). I kinda like that idea- more shooting for the same fixed cost!

Didn't catch exactly how we were supposed to "vote" though . . .

Steve (now in TX) Swartz

[F. Paul in Denver]

I vote BOTH events

[R.M.]

Stan

It looks to me that the majority of people don't realize that if you're logged in, you can actually click on a
button and vote. Last I saw was something like 120 views and only 8 votes.
Anyway, at the Canadian Grand Prix, they've had both events since before the actual rules came out,
and at CDN Nationals they've had both since the ISSF came out with rules. I've seen it shot with Styers
BRNOs and even Crosmans. My wife and I both have B96's and can be competitive with them. The
Styre's are nice but not cheap like me.
The falling plate outfit can as elaborate as the maker wants it to be. The one from
http://www.targettimers.com/ are maybe a bit too elaborate in my mind, but I've seen a few homemade
ones as well as the Rika's and the game is just plain fun.
We've shot both courses of fire in our club league here in Colorado using homemade outfits and
electronic timers. The range officer gets to call late shots. Probably an IPSIC type timer would work too,
maybe even be able to distinguish late shots.
Anyway, yes USAS should put the rules into their book and get the ball rolling. The matches are
inexpensive to set up and shoot, so they should get support once people get exposed to them.

R.M.

[David Levene]

Although these events are in the ISSF rule book, they are in their own section as they are not ISSF recognised events. They cannot therefore be shot at Continental or World Championships.

Under rule 3.3.8.1 one of the first steps to obtaining recognition is for "A minimum of five (5) member federations in two (2) continents must certify that the event is practiced in that country;"

We are shooting them here in the UK, anyone else?

[PETE S]

I have the gun so I will shoot. But I also look to see if I can use the gun before I buy the gun. MY lp-5 is both a backup and atraining tool. It would be nice to have it as a primary rather than a backup match gun!

The events are fun and require skill and help develop skills. The key remains having a match somplace.

[Anders Turebrand]

In Sweden and Finland, we shoot rapid air on turning paper targets spaced 30 cm apart, giving the same angle between targets as at 25 meters.
timing is 10, 8, 6 sec instead of 8, 6, 4


Interest in the official falling target version is virtually nil, as you would have to practise a separate turning angle...(not true!!)

Regards
Anders

oops... just looked at the official rules ;-)
targets are spaced 30 cm apart, but anyway interest is low...

[R.M.]

As I said in an earlier post, Canada has been shooting both courses of fire for quite a while.
Three countries on two continents.

R.M.

[David Levene]

If these events (or something similar to them) are being fired in the UK, Canada, Sweden and Finland, we only need one more country. What about the Aussies?

Stan

Sorry Stan, the match shot in Sweden/Finland is nothing like the ISSF 5 target event. It is more like the old "Provisional Rules" event which was dropped at the end of 2000.

Once we find the requisite number and location of countries we will then need to get all of the National Governing Bodies to write to the ISSF. Somehow I think that will be a harder job.

[Lee Jr]

The 5 target event looks like it would be much more fun! I hope that I can find a few shooters who would like to try out either course of fire during some of my monthly matches this winter in Columbus (IN).

Lee

[Anders Turebrand]

I am not really fond of the falling target idea, as it punishes a less than perfect shot too heavily, although it perhaps has some merit as a spectator event.
The logical (to me...) extension of the event would be to have a preliminary event for score and then finals with the eight best in a shoot of, one on one (first place against eight place, second against seventh, and so forth, the winner goes on to the next round), I believe this could actually be fun to watch.

Anyway I have no problem with trying it out other than finding a target bay, which I have never seen in Sweden.
There is of course the possibility of making paper targets with the correct dot size and a 30mm scoring ring, just to get the feel for the event

I was under the impression that reason for going to a falling target event in the first place was to make sure that rapid air would not compete with the 25 meter event (in the olympics...)

Most people here in sweden use rapid air for indoor training in the wintertime, it´s too cold and dark for serius training at 25 meters, it´s dark when you go to work and it´s dark when you go home and if your 25 meter range has no electricity it´s a bit hard to put up lights...

/Anders

[David Levene]

There is of course the possibility of making paper targets with the correct dot size and a 30mm scoring ring, just to get the feel for the event

Just use a normal Air Pistol target. The size of the black is the same as on the falling targets (59.5mm) and providing that the shot is totally within the nine ring then it would have gone through the hole. The nine ring is actually 27.5mm as opposed to 30mm for the hole on the falling targets.

Unfortunately you will not get the instant hit/miss feedback which is part of the fun, and challenge, of the falling target event.

Trying to fire a good 5th shot when you know that the first 4 have all been hits is quite demanding. Trying to fire a good 40th shot when you know that the first 39 have all been hits (just dreaming) is even worse.

[Anders Turebrand]

providing that the shot is totally within the nine ring then it would have gone through the hole. The nine ring is actually 27.5mm as opposed to 30mm for the hole on the falling targets.

I could imagine that a hit on the edge of the hole might spring the target and that you could score a nine ring hit (breaking or tangent to the line) as a hit, but I dont know...

I will try the regular 10 meter target this afternoon...

What do you feel about a one on one final (ten shots)?
On the negative side, it would take some time I guess, with seven relays to complete, but for spectators it would be fun

[RobStubbs]

If these events (or something similar to them) are being fired in the UK, Canada, Sweden and Finland, we only need one more country. What about the Aussies?

Stan

Sorry Stan, the match shot in Sweden/Finland is nothing like the ISSF 5 target event. It is more like the old "Provisional Rules" event which was dropped at the end of 2000.

Once we find the requisite number and location of countries we will then need to get all of the National Governing Bodies to write to the ISSF. Somehow I think that will be a harder job.

David,
If it's 'countries' then can we not split the UK up ? 5 shot AP is deffinately shot in England, Scotland and Wales.

Rob.

[David Levene]

If it's 'countries' then can we not split the UK up ? 5 shot AP is deffinately shot in England, Scotland and Wales.

Afraid not, the ISSF only deal with the GBTSF.

[pilkguns]

We have two sets of the ISSF falling plates for RF Air made by RIKA. These are the same two that those of you who shot the event at the USASNC. You can see them in this link from the Bianchi Cup
http://www.pilkguns.com/2004/bia2/index.htm

In interest of furthering this event, I would be willing to loan or lease this inviduaally to interested groups or clubs. I'm sortof thinking out loud here, we would have to work out the details of shipping costs etc, but it would be nice to see someone using them rather than there sitting in a corner here. contact us at the info address if you are interested.

[David Levene]

In interest of furthering this event, I would be willing to loan or lease this inviduaally to interested groups or clubs. I'm sortof thinking out loud here, we would have to work out the details of shipping costs etc, but it would be nice to see someone using them rather than there sitting in a corner here. contact us at the info address if you are interested.

Hey folks, rip his arm off. At least give them a try. Use them at regular times for a few weeks then look at how many spectators you are getting.

You could even invest in a set of the larger holed plates for the youngsters to try. Nothing is more guaranteed to get young people interested than instant gratification.