TargetTalk

Sorry to bother you with this question that was already discussed here but I cannot find a photo which has been posted on TT board with a clear presentation what does ISSF think saying "40mm deep". Help needed, hope you answer,
Grzegorz

Grzegorz Gladyszewski wrote:Sorry to bother you with this question that was already discussed here but I cannot find a photo which has been posted on TT board with a clear presentation what does ISSF think saying "40mm deep". Help needed, hope you answer,
Grzegorz

Photos of New ISSF Binder Sizes .... :-(

Hm... I have received a photo given below with comments "glasses made according to new ISSF rules" and they are different in understanding of the words "40 mm deep"...

I just posted the link to previous discussion and photos which Mako posted in November. Read old discussion: viewtopic.php?t=7126&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Fine, but the discussion is not complet (on the old board somebody - maybe Mako) has sent x and y indications to solve the problem. I was sure after that discussion that glasses as shown by Mako are OK. Glasses shown on "my" picture are oposite to that understanding of the word "deep". And these glasses has been recently presented on IWA 2004 as made within new rules, so... I am missed a little...

I am pretty sure that even Mako would agree that his original thoughts on the word deep were incorrect (apologies to Mako if that is not the case).

The pictures in Shin's posting are therefore incorrect and the ones in Grzegorz's posting are correct.

I agree with David Levine. The 40mm deep refers to the vertical axis. On the horizontal axis they may not extend beyond a line from the center of the forehead.

The ISSF rule reads;
"Side blinders attached to the hat, cap,shooting glasses, or to a head band, not exceeding 40mm deep are permitted. These blinders must not extend further forward than to a line from the center of the forehead."

I have some doubt that these would comply with "These blinders must not extend further forward than to a line from the center of the forehead" unless the shooter had an excedinly protruding forehead...

"

Shin wrote:

Grzegorz Gladyszewski wrote:Sorry to bother you with this question that was already discussed here but I cannot find a photo which has been posted on TT board with a clear presentation what does ISSF think saying "40mm deep". Help needed, hope you answer,
Grzegorz

Photos of New ISSF Binder Sizes .... :-(

If you have a protuding forehead your blinders may extend further forward than if your have a flat forehead. I quoted the Rule exactly as stated on the ISSF website. The photo from Mako is not correct, the one from Grzegorz is. The plastic brim on the Grezegorz photo might be confusing you. Just look at the side blinders.

There has been too much speculation on this rule and it is turning into a flame with too much incorrect, confusing information.

I have the ISSF Edition 2005 (First Draft, 01/2004) as a pdf file but do not know how to send just the one page and not the entire file. I cannot edit just the one page. If someone can tell me or knows how to do it, I will post the rule and the drawings from the ISSF.
It is is in the rifle section but it is valid for all disciplines;
ISSF Rules 7.4.7.6, 7.4.7.6.1, 7.4.7.6.2.

I have printed the page with the rules. I can fax it to someone so that it can be posted. I do not have a copier.

I agree that my photos show how NOT to modify ones side blinders ...

Page 6:

Page 15:


Thanks Sandy for the information

I think what everbody is missing here is the "side blinder my not be attached to the aiming eye" that means blinders only on one side of the glasses..... right???

or does this refer to something else???

Tom

tommyg wrote:I think what everbody is missing here is the "side blinder my not be attached to the aiming eye" that means blinders only on one side of the glasses..... right???

or does this refer to something else???

That only refers to blinders attached to the rear sight or the rifle.

Go to the ISSF website, Rules and Regulations, then to Rule Ammendments for 2004. It states that the ammendments for side blinders are valid for all disciplines.

RULES 7.4.7.6, 7.4.7.6.1, 7.4.7.6.2 and 7.4.7.6.3 (shown in red) apply to all disciplines and side blinders are stated in the PLURAL form with a vertical depth of 40mm.

RULE 7.4.2.3.4 states that a blinder may attached to the rifle or to the rear sight and is stated in the SINGULAR form. It restricts the depth to 30mm and the length to 100mm from the center of the aperture for the non-shooting eye. It also specifies that a blinder must not be used on the side of the aiming eye.

RULE 7.4.2.3.4 does not apply to pistol shooters.

Sandy wrote:Go to the ISSF website, Rules and Regulations, then to Rule Ammendments for 2004. It states that the ammendments for side blinders are valid for all disciplines.

RULES 7.4.7.6, 7.4.7.6.1, 7.4.7.6.2 and 7.4.7.6.3 (shown in red) apply to all disciplines and side blinders are stated in the PLURAL form with a vertical depth of 40mm.

RULE 7.4.2.3.4 states that a blinder may attached to the rifle or to the rear sight and is stated in the SINGULAR form. It restricts the depth to 30mm and the length to 100mm from the center of the aperture for the non-shooting eye. It also specifies that a blinder must not be used on the side of the aiming eye.

RULE 7.4.2.3.4 does not apply to pistol shooters.

You seem to be mixing two sets of rules. The Rule Amendments for 2004 apply to the 4th printing of the 2001 rules. "...side blinder may not be attached to the aiming eye..." as the original question only refers to rifle.

The numbered rules you give are from the draft of the 2005 rules and do not apply to pistol. Some of them may well have equivalents in the pistol section but they would then start with 8 instead of 7.

This question started in the Pistol Forum. I was trying to clarify the issue for pistol shooters.

The Side Blinders are an Ammendment for the 4th Printing, (in force from 01.01.2004). It states that this ammendment is valid for all disciplines. There are NO rule numbers for this ammendment.
There is a separate rule for rifle that is 7.4.2.3.3.
Edition 2001 (fourth printing,02,2003)
Rule 7.4.7 (Rifle) is a spare (not used)
Rule 8.4.7 (Pistol) is a spare (not used)

Edition 2005 (first draft,01,2004) that is posted in red indicates the proposed numbering for the new rules of the ammendments. It clarifies the specifics of the blinder rules with drawings. The draft is only a draft. However, it codifies and clarifies the Side Blinders Ammendment in the fourth printing. The ammendment states that the blinder rules are valid for all disciplines, therefore rifle rule 7.4.7.6 will probably be pistol rule 8.4.7.6 etc. since the numerical sequence of similar rules are usually equivalent in the different disciplines. I do not have a draft of the new pistol rules for reference.

I am not mixing two sets of rules. I am trying to clarify the ammendments that are in currently in force (which are confusing to many) using the first draft of the new rules for 2005 (which are clearly illustrated with drawings).

The only reason that I included 7.4.2.3.4 is because there is a reference to it (First Draft, 2005) 7.4.7.6 , page 15. It is a rifle rule number change from 7.4.2.3.3 (2004) to 7.4.2.3.4 (2005). It does not pertain to the ammended blinder rules for glasses. It is only pertinent for rifle shooters. I did not intend for pistol shooters to read it and think that it refered to glasses also.

IS the 'edition 2005 - first draft' available on the web? I have looked around the ISSF website but cannot find any reference.

Spencer

Shin wrote:Page 6:

Page 15:


Thanks Sandy for the information

To the best of my knowledge the draft is not on the web. There has been a lot of speculation and confusion on this rule. I wanted to clarify the issue for everyone by posting the illustrations.

The drawings provided by Sandy clear up most of the confusion, but one dimension still worries me.

The 40 depth is shown on a side blinder whose top edge is horizontal. If only real life was that simple. The side arms of shooting glasses, and therefore the top edge of the side blinder, are normally far from horizontal when worn. Should the 40mm be measured at 90 degrees to the side arm or vertically, there could be a big difference.

I personally feel that the former is more likely but now is the time for queries in the draft for the next rules to be sorted out.