TargetTalk

I have come to realize that some of the inconsistencies in my results comes from variations in my sighting process. I am a bit over 6"1". If I hold my pistol level while at "eye level" I get a great view of the aligned front-rear sights, but I'm well about my aiming area. So I have two options; I can adjust my grip/wrist angle so that the barrel is pointing downward (rear plate still in line with my eye) or I have to lower my arm down until my sights align in the white holding area, which means I end up "looking down upon" the sight picture rather than my eye lined up. I'm assuming the former option would be he preferred technique? Just playing around with this today and got some pretty nice groups but hitting quite low (4cm) so I'm looking for some feedback and wisdom. Thanks for any info.

I don't understand how you can aim an AP without having your eye directly behind and in line with the sight.

I am shorter than you, I raise my pistol to eye level, rather than lower my head down to a lower pistol (shoulder height) like shooting a rifle.
I am aiming slightly "downhill," but so what.
For me the difference is in how my neck feels after shooting.

This sounds like a wrist angle problem. Change your wrist angle.
If its not comfortable alter the grip.

How do you know you're holding your pistol level while at "eye level"? And why does it matter? The object isn't to stand like a statue with your arm parallel to the floor. If your sights line up with a point above the target, then lower your sights - by whatever means works for you - to the target area. You ought to have figured that out by now.

If you can't come up with a better solution you might consider sawing an inch or two off your right leg (assuming you're a right-handed shooter).

William,
GFYMAH. There's no prize to be won here for wasting the most bandwidth on the forum, you don't need to post when you have nothing to contribute, especially when you fail to comprehend the question.

william wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 8:26 am How do you know you're holding your pistol level while at "eye level"? And why does it matter? The object isn't to stand like a statue with your arm parallel to the floor. If your sights line up with a point above the target, then lower your sights - by whatever means works for you - to the target area. You ought to have figured that out by now.

If you can't come up with a better solution you might consider sawing an inch or two off your right leg (assuming you're a right-handed shooter).

Now you're just being silly, Willy. Obviously, he just needs to put a high heeled shoe on his back foot.

Rover wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 11:03 am

william wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 8:26 am How do you know you're holding your pistol level while at "eye level"? And why does it matter? The object isn't to stand like a statue with your arm parallel to the floor. If your sights line up with a point above the target, then lower your sights - by whatever means works for you - to the target area. You ought to have figured that out by now.

If you can't come up with a better solution you might consider sawing an inch or two off your right leg (assuming you're a right-handed shooter).

Now you're just being silly, Willy. Obviously, he just needs to put a high heeled shoe on his back foot.

Nah, he just needs to lower his stance.

To the OP, I don't understand the difficulty you are having. The sights have to be aligned with the chosen aiming point in the background. You have to adjust your feet, stance, posture, arm, grip, wrist and head position to make that happen.

If you raise the gun up to target level and the sights aren't aligned (or if the sights align above or below that target) then the grip, wrist or shoulder need to be changed. You can also change the angle of your torso if that helps.

You need to find the combination with the least movement.

FWIW I don't believe the old advice to move you rear foot forward or back to raise lower you position. My hips and waist settle into the same orientation between my two legs so it only drops my body down a few millimeters. It doesn't change the angle of my torso, arm or gun.

I've never heard of anyone advocating moving your rear foot forward or back for pistol. It is a standard thing for shooting rifle offhand. If your elbow is being supported by your hip, a slight change to the tilt to your hips definitely affects your vertical point of aim.

"...fail to comprehend the question"? The question is incomprehensible. If your aimpoint is above the target, lower your point of aim until it's in the right place. If you can't figure out how to do that....

Milan World Cup may have the answer...
Most Italians are short and the baffles on the range are low.
Tall shooters cannot see the target without bending over.
They have a couple of bays with removable floor boards,
so the shooter stands down in a hole to shoot.
Problem solved....

toddinjax wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 5:18 pm I have come to realize that some of the inconsistencies in my results comes from variations in my sighting process. I am a bit over 6"1". If I hold my pistol level while at "eye level" I get a great view of the aligned front-rear sights, but I'm well about my aiming area. So I have two options; I can adjust my grip/wrist angle so that the barrel is pointing downward (rear plate still in line with my eye) or I have to lower my arm down until my sights align in the white holding area, which means I end up "looking down upon" the sight picture rather than my eye lined up. I'm assuming the former option would be he preferred technique? Just playing around with this today and got some pretty nice groups but hitting quite low (4cm) so I'm looking for some feedback and wisdom. Thanks for any info.

As a somewhat tall person, I think I understand what you are saying (6'4" tall the day I signed up for the Marine Corps. People do shrink some as they get older, though. I have.)

The issue from your point of view (no pun intended) is that your natural point of aim is above the target, and, you feel you are pointing the pistol down to see the target. The fact is, you probably are. It does not matter. You have the same sight picture at ten meters that a 5'5" person does. (But they may be aiming up, to see the target.) You each have a different center of gravity, though, based on position. The fact is each shooter should have adjusted their sights (and body) to compensate for these differences, and allow for center 10, shots, if everything else is okay.

Check out Yur Yev, on pages 135 to 137,... There is a discussion about pistol shooting positions,..

(Personally, I do not think height differences are that important, as they can be compensated for by sight adjustment, body position, and hold. Also, all questions when one is on a range, are good questions. The questions not asked can lead to injury, and death. (Those of us who have witnessed people being shot, at a range, will understand this immediately.))

from Competitive Shooting, by Yur Yev. pages 135 to 137. (c) 1985 VH Winston, and Sons.

Thank you 1963. Yup, you get it alright. Yes my concern is having to "point downwards" to the target so much with my wrist, more than seems/feels natural as I know hyperflexion can cause injury. If one keeps their head level, not tilted up or down, when you lower the arm you are then looking down at your sights.
I'll have to pick up a copy of that book.
Thanks so much.

ask Dina and Daniel about the differences :)

Don't over flex your wrist.
Lower the angle of your ARM. There is no need to keep your arm up, so that the gun is at eye level.

Yes you are looking down at your sights, because you are now holding the AP slightly below your eyes.
But you MUST line up your eye, the rear sight, the front sight and the target.
You are NOT looking down onto the top of the AP. If you do, you are not lined up.

If your eye level is above the center of the target, you may have to slightly tilt your head forward, to look downward.
Keeping your head straight upright and having to look downward can be hard on the eye muscles.

You can try what I've seen some shooter do.
Bend your head to the front and right, and lower your head, so your cheek is on your shoulder. Like shooting a rifle.
This will lower your eye height by a couple/few inches.
I don't do that, because it is hard on my neck.