TargetTalk

I finally got around to adjusting the position of the trigger - moved it out (away) about 3mm, and down about 2mm.

I also angled the trigger shoe slightly toward my shooting hand (right), maybe 10 degrees - seems more comfortable.

Are these types of adjustments usual and customary - or am I breaking any AP commandments that I don't know of ?

Failure to properly adjust the trigger will be SEVERELY punished by TT members.

Try not to let your squeals of pain and dismay disturb the tranquillity of your fellow posters.

Full back, and angled to the inside of the hand matching the curve of my finger at the first joint. I learned on a single action with lots of slack, wanting both to use the same portion of the finger. Finger pad on trigger doesn't seem as precise, especially with a centerfire trigger weight.

Actually had to completely redo the trigger settings on my fwb c5, it went full auto on me, a nice 5 shot string up the target last one at -3 into the wood box, no hole in the wall so I'm alive to talk about it. Talk about a surprise break!

Moving the trigger shoe down any more than is required is a disadvantage. Since your trigger is weighed in the middle, having a longer lever means your let off weight probably is no longer 500 grams.
I would hazard a guess that those who bought new guns and haven't weighed them since break-in probably don't have 500 grams either.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:25 pm Moving the trigger shoe down any more than is required is a disadvantage. Since your trigger is weighed in the middle, having a longer lever means your let off weight probably is no longer 500 grams.
I would hazard a guess that those who bought new guns and haven't weighed them since break-in probably don't have 500 grams either.

Easy enough to fix - reweigh the trigger. Then set it to 520-525 grams so there's no chance for a judge with shaky hands or other things on his mind to DQ you.

As for positioning, what matters is that force you exert on the trigger is straight back toward your eyes. If you're doing that, then your adjustments are OK. And on the subject of soliciting advice: Rover is the last word.

A couple additional details: You want the force on the trigger to be straight to the rear at the point where it fires. Lots of people will adjust their trigger so that they pull straight back at the start, but if the trigger has significant travel, they will end up pulling slightly sideways by the time it goes off.

Many people also find that the feel of the trigger is more comfortable if they offset its position some to the side. In that case, you will be applying a twisting force to the pistol as you pull the trigger. If it's a small offset, it's probably not a big deal, but what it really means is that the pistol's grip doesn't fit you properly.

Let my clarify my prior post. If you can shoot with your finger comfortably on the bottom of the trigger, instead of moving it down, you will effectively be shooting less weight.
Look at a Morini trigger shoe. It would be hard to shoot with your finger up on the center notch. Morini triggers are not adjustable for vertical travel. Most every person using them places their finger below the center divot. They are therefore pulling less than 500 grams.

Good stuff - thank you all.

The trigger has not been weighed - so that's on my "to do" list. The folks at CC told me it should be "ISSF ready" - but we'll see.

I have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of the trigger mechanism, so I am trying to make sure the trigger pull is straight back with no angle. My problem is long fingers - even with the large grip, and having the grip properly set in the crotch of my hand - my finger extends way out beyond the trigger box.

I'll try this for a while - and see if any bad patterns emerge. So far so good - it feels better and I think helping in establishing that more stable platform.

There is a guy on FB 10M pistol group that bought a brand new K12. He learned his trigger was at 300 grams, after putting 9000 shots through it. He had a tough learning curve to get his scores back where he was upon setting it up properly.

I get it. I'm still under 1000 shots with this, but I know it's light. (How light is TBD)

I've had the Benelli set at about 1200 gr. (~2.5 lbs) for several years and this is a hail of a lot lighter.

Of course everything on the planet is lighter than the .44 mag revolver even in SA. (~3.5 lbs)

We have a guy at the club who I know can weight the K12 properly - just waiting for him to recover from hand surgery !

You can make your own weight. Use a coat hanger wire for the hook, and two pellet tins for the weight.

500 grams is 7716 grains, which works out to just about 1000 pellets, depending on their weight. Throw in the weight of the coat hanger & metal tins, and you are pretty close right there. I just measured a new 500 pellet tin of 8.2 grain pellets, and came up with 289 grams.

If you can find an accurate scale to borrow, you can adjust the number of pellets in the tins to get really close. If you have a pellet trap, you can use fired pellets. If they are flattened, you can probably get more than 500 in a tin because they pack better.

Good idea !

My reloading scale only goes to 1500 gn, so I had to do some finagling.

Not to get crazy, but it did fit into a single pellet tin:

6969.7 gn (44 mag 240gn FMJ bullets ~36)
277.5 gn (tin, lid, + duct tape)
89.0 gn (coat hanger)
425.0 gn (trimmed with pellets and filled in the gaps between the HUGE bullets)

7761.2 gn (total - a little high but OK I suspect)

It did fire the pistol, but hard to to by how much. My guess is that it's close. So, I plan to make another that I can add & subtract weight to.

THEN, the question arises: increase first or second stage weight?

At a big competition, it's just whether it will lift the weight. You want some margin, at least 25 grams.

If you want actual numbers by stage, I highly recommend the Lyman digital trigger gauge:

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7832248-El ... 2QGLS?th=1

They are amazingly consistent & accurate for the price.

HOWEVER, it's still a good idea to have a test weight handy. The two techniques don't always agree exactly, and there's some variation due to technique as well. If you lift the pistol quickly, the inertia of the weight will make the pistol fire before it normally would. The rules say to lift "slowly", but that is subject to interpretation.

Holy Cow - I'm getting one of those !

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7832248-El ... 2QGLS?th=1

I find the Lyman gauge tricky to use but cobbled together a weight set for my ISSF shooting. I have a plastic pot which, plus lid and hanger, has enough lead bullets and pellets in it to give me 500gm. I also have a further plastic bag of bullets/pellets weighing 500gm which fits inside the pot with the other weights to give 1000gm. I also have some weighed washers to slip over the shaft to give me a margin. I filed the underside of the cross-member of the shaft to a knife edge to sit better in the trigger blade notches. Works well.

Bob

Amazon makes it easy sometimes.
https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-Weight-50 ... 8d18bf51be
I added a couple of hardware store washers to give me extra margin so we are not too close to minimum spec and risk a DQ.

Nah, here is my wabi-sabi version of completely adjustable weight (currently set to 1025g)

Agt. Smith wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:43 pm ...

...THEN, the question arises: increase first or second stage weight?

Using the Lyman gauge, I put ~350 grams on the first stage and the remainder (~165 grams on the second). At least as important to me has been to precisely remove any trace of trigger motion with pressure and firing of the second stage. I've played with less pressure on the second stage, but I cannot accurately sense the impending break point at a lower weight than I am using.

The gauge also allows you to set up multiple pistols with similar pull weights, if you have them.

I'm advised that to make the second stage weight higher than the first stage is inviting disaster. You apparently cannot sense when you have approached the eventual break point and will snatch and pull the trigger to get it to do something, with bad result

I emphasize the importance of adjusting away any trace of trigger motion on the second stage and break point, with the trigger stop adjustment. Applying additional pressure at the second stage results in shot release with no additional motion. Follow through is tough if the pistol is wagging away in response to a collapsed trigger on release.

FWB's (and others, I'm sure) allow for precise adjustment of these factors.

Hi

"I emphasize the importance of adjusting away any trace of trigger motion on the second stage and break point, with the trigger stop adjustment."

Does this mean, the trigger should stop exactly where the shot releases ?

Maybe.