TargetTalk

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:20 pm**

Hi,

So, i decided to start my search for my own air pistol. The main reasons to buy one are:
1) I don't have to rely on the club pistol being available or charged (club only has one CO2 pistol, as nice as it is, if it's empty or someone else is shooting I can't practice. I then resort to rifle, which I also like. But My preference goes to pistol.
2) I can practice at home (dry fire, practice posture etc.) which, provided I do things right should help me progress faster than going to the shooting club only once a week.

Now, I'm lookin into a competition class pistol. Without a doubt all are good, wether is's a Feinwerkbau, Steyr, Morini, Pardini, Walther.. Money is not a restriction, in that sense I can afford any pistol currently on the market and my CFO has no objection.

So my question is not which one of the above to get.

My question is how I figure out which one is best for me. I might be able to try a few of the above from club members, and in November there's the Belgian Open Championship, where a few vendors usually are represented so I can get my hands on a few.

But what to pay attention to? How should things feel.

It kinda feels like getting your first racing bicyle. They all feel solid, fast, responsive.. But which one is best? (been there done that)

Many thanks.

Wouter.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:43 pm**

Buy a single stroke pneumatic (FWB100 series, Pardini K58, Walther LPM1) and you'll never be out of air. It's also cheaper in the long run.

You will adjust the gun to fit you. Don't expect you to fit the gun. After that, it's whatever amuses you.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:15 pm**

Rover, you are living in the past.
Single stroke pneumatic's were good back in the 90's when we had lots of time for a match.
Electronic targets, short match times make any manual pump gun a big disadvantage.
Any new shooter should look for a pistol in current production with a local dealer (parts/service support).
Check out local clubs and try many pistols for fit and feel.
Then, buy the best pistol you can afford to buy.
A good competition pistol will be good for many years.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:50 pm**

I guess living in the past is why I shoot equal match scores with my PCP as with my SSP.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:06 pm**

"I guess living in the past is why I shoot equal match scores with my PCP as with my SSP".

Only to prove it's not the gun, it's the shooter.
Stan

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:12 pm**

Rover wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:50 pm I guess living in the past is why I shoot equal match scores with my PCP as with my SSP.

Are you shooting high level comp's on electronic targets, 60 shots in 75 min
or club level with coffee breaks ?

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:19 pm**

David M wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:12 pm
Rover wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:50 pm I guess living in the past is why I shoot equal match scores with my PCP as with my SSP.
Are you shooting high level comp's on electronic targets, 60 shots in 75 min
or club level with coffee breaks ?

Normal timed matches, but I take a sit-down break after 20 shots and 40 shots. I'm comfortable.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 am**

Trying others is a good place to start.

The order you have them listed might mean you already have a preference.

Make sure you have good service and support locally.

Always remember that someone is shooting well with all of them.

If you want to do all of your own service, Steyr is an easy gun to work on, and they even provide YouTube videos on how to do a lot of your own work. Those videos were the building blocks and got me to the point that I can now do 100% of the service on my two mechanical trigger models.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:09 am**

A major factor to consider is where you live as that may well affect the availability of parts and/or service. All of the manufacturers you note make quality air pistols. If you are in the United States, parts and service will be a issue with most brands except Styer and possibly Morini if Pilkguns is still servicing that brand. If you're in Europe, you will have a much wider selection that are relatively easy to service. Try as many as you can before selecting the one that feels best to you.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:17 am**

This is a universal problem. Deciding. Perhaps we look at what the pistol NEEDS to have.
The list of questions might start at the trigger.
Mechanical or Electronic.
Your hand size is less important than your hand makeup.
I have a large hand with shortish fingers, the trigger location was harder to get setup
on some pistols than others. If it doesn't fit really well with adjustments, look around at others.
All of them seem to have a different idea of what the glove sizes are.
Reputation. a bit difficult with such small numbers in the hands of such opinionated people, BUT
there seem to be a few universal thoughts/opinions that float around. The mechanical trigger choice seems
to be the FWB P8X. I have an earlier iteration of it and I give it high marks for the ability to tune it perfectly
to what you want it to feel like. The downside of Mechanical triggers is their ability to be tuned into oblivion
if you don't have a good working knowledge of how and why you move things to get what you want. I have stories.
The electronic guns, lead by the Steyr and Morini have a measurable lock time advantage over mechanical triggers,
measured in milliseconds. That may or not matter depending on if you are good enough to exploit it. Steyr and Morini drivers haven't
been too good on pinning down the exact differences that made them pick what they picked. There is nearly universal praise of the Steyr,
with perhaps less for the Morini. I've shot a Steyr once, its a very nice piece of kit, but having no experience with a Morini, I cant tell you
a preference. Both are stunningly good, as are Walthers which I've never gotten to touch either.

There should be a list of disqualifying stuff.

I would avoid the "Value" offerings. If you have budget, why put the "I wish I spent a bit more money" question in your mind.
That kills off the PCP IZH, whatever they call it and also the Hamerli AP20 and Benelli Kite. Now these are good
shooters, but they are built to price points and perhaps leave performance and adjustability on the table.

I would also avoid Matchguns outright due to their reported quality issues and difficulty of service.

I collect old CO2 match pistols, and many are fabuluous, but none should be starters on your list.

Lastly, perhaps a trip to Airguns of Arizona to shoot all of these at their store range would be worth the money.

I hope this helps...

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:12 pm**

spektr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:17 am ....
I would avoid the "Value" offerings. If you have budget, why put the "I wish I spent a bit more money" question in your mind.
That kills off the PCP IZH, whatever they call it and also the Hamerli AP20 and Benelli Kite. Now these are good
shooters, but they are built to price points and perhaps leave performance and adjustability on the table.
...

As previous owner of Hammerli AP 20 Pro, and now Walther LP 500 basic - I can safely say - untrue.
Both are extremely configurable - and amazingly performant gun. I was getting 97 at some point in time regularly with AP 20 Pro ( till the trigger got a problem - thanks to me using grease ) - and I am regularly getting 95 in LP 500 now. :-)
Not sure with Benelli.
Also here is a thread with lots of folks talking about FWB vs Walther.
http://targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63684
For reference.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:48 pm**

"...perhaps a trip to Airguns of Arizona to shoot all of these at their store range would be worth the money."
I'd say that prospect starting from Belgium doesn't exactly scream "cost-effective" to me.

The alternative to "I wish I had spent a bit more money." is "Why in the world did I waste a few hundred Euros on this useless farkle?" Things like e-triggers, recoil reduction devices or exotic materials may appeal to some, but if they were objectively better everybody would demand them. Even Rover.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm**

william wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:48 pm "...perhaps a trip to Airguns of Arizona to shoot all of these at their store range would be worth the money."
I'd say that prospect starting from Belgium doesn't exactly scream "cost-effective" to me.....

Oh I wish I could drive to Krale.......... Cheers

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:53 pm**

Hi,

First of all thanks for your comments and input.

Maybe something I forgot to mention: I live in Belgium. Now Belgium is not the place to buy pistols. not too many shops. But a two hr drive to Germany makes things quite different. All brands and type pretty much readily available. Getting any pistol serviced is probably not much of an issue either.

If Steyrs are user servicable that's interesting to know. However let's hope service is rarely necessary when spending this kind of money. I'm a bit hesitant towards electronic triggers. I don't see the benefit for a noob like myself. so let's say i'll stick to mechanical trigger pistols.

Someone said you get the pistol fitted to yourself. Would that mean I could just get any reputable pistol and I can get it to fit me. That would then mean I could just get the one I like best in the looks department... Would make things a lot easier ;-)

When looking at olympics or championships on Youtube it seems that Steyrs and morinis are quite popular. But I guess that probably has a lot to do with sponsorships too. On the other hand I guess no champion would want to deal with a bad (unrelibale, inaccurate,...) pistol.

Kind regards,

Wouter.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 pm**

If you are concerned about repairs, there is no doubt that the SSPs are cheapest, usually an O-ring or two.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:09 pm**

Perhaps you could drive to see Thomas Rink about getting a perfect grip made to order once you select your pistol choice too?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:11 pm**

Rover wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 pm If you are concerned about repairs, there is no doubt that the SSPs are cheapest, usually an O-ring or two.

When PCP guns fail, it's usually on O-ring or two to fix them as well.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:27 pm**

spektr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:17 am
The list of questions might start at the trigger.
Mechanical or Electronic.
The electronic guns, lead by the Steyr and Morini have a measurable lock time advantage over mechanical triggers,
measured in milliseconds. That may or not matter depending on if you are good enough to exploit it. Steyr and Morini drivers haven't
been too good on pinning down the exact differences that made them pick what they picked. There is nearly universal praise of the Steyr,
with perhaps less for the Morini.

Where does one find the lock times of mechanical vs electronic? I have seen these comments before, but have never seen any data for comparison. Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:46 pm**

I re-read your initial question and this stuck in what passes for my mind:
"It kinda feels like getting your first racing bicyle. They all feel solid, fast, responsive.. But which one is best? (been there done that)"

Let's establish one fact. There is no objective best. They are all good, and it comes down to what is subjectively the best for you. If you can go to the championship match and have some time to get hands-on with the likely candidates you're better than halfway there. For example, I knew immediately that my hand and Steyr LPs aren't good together. As it turns out, my first Pardini was immediate love. Along the way I've liked a Benelli Kite. My Brigitte Bardot moment was with a SAM M10, but it started leaking badly with little prospect of getting it properly repaired. So, tail between legs, back to Pardini I came.

Don't get yourself all worked up over things that may look important on paper but are of no practical advantage, like the difference in lock time between one high quality AP and another. It leads to paralysis by analysis. Unproductive and no fun!

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:18 pm**

Wouterdhoye wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:20 pm Hi,

So, i decided to start my search for my own air pistol. The main reasons to buy one are:
1) I don't have to rely on the club pistol being available or charged (club only has one CO2 pistol, as nice as it is, if it's empty or someone else is shooting I can't practice. I then resort to rifle, which I also like. But My preference goes to pistol.
2) I can practice at home (dry fire, practice posture etc.) which, provided I do things right should help me progress faster than going to the shooting club only once a week.

Now, I'm lookin into a competition class pistol. Without a doubt all are good, wether is's a Feinwerkbau, Steyr, Morini, Pardini, Walther.. Money is not a restriction, in that sense I can afford any pistol currently on the market and my CFO has no objection.

So my question is not which one of the above to get.

My question is how I figure out which one is best for me. I might be able to try a few of the above from club members, and in November there's the Belgian Open Championship, where a few vendors usually are represented so I can get my hands on a few.

But what to pay attention to? How should things feel.

It kinda feels like getting your first racing bicyle. They all feel solid, fast, responsive.. But which one is best? (been there done that)

Many thanks.

Wouter.

you may try my lp500 basic at my home range...

TargetTalk

How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m

Re: How to choose an air pistol of ISSF 10m