TargetTalk

I want to test my Toz-35 barrel accuracy so what is a safe and best way to tighten pistol/barrel to the bench?
Is it safe to use a normal bench clamp/vise?

I built a full grip block to fit and bolt the pistol to a fixed machine rest.
I did this for both a Toz and a Morini.
Test groups at 50m were typical about 18-22mm.

I've tested all my 50m pistols (Hammerli 104, Toz 35, MU55-1, Morini CM 84E) using a barrel clamp. I clamp the barrel in the Ransom Rest using blank (un-inletted) grip inserts. My aim was to assess the accuracy of ammunition/barrel combination. After that, it is up to me! I agree with David - the best ever 10-shot group was 16mm (Fiocchi Competizione in an MU55-1) and worst was 56mm (Vostok Target in everything!) with most ammunition holding the X-ring (maximum 30mm centre-to-centre groups) at 50m.

From your results, it sounds as if it is not worth the trouble to test ammo. This is pretty much the same result as my air pistol pellet testing, and the advice of our host here. On the other hand, there are some crap products out there.

During the last Great .22 Shortage, I used whatever I could find. As long as it operated my auto reliably, I was successful with it.

Ammo testing at the time was useful, pre- Olympics ans Commonwealth games.
It taught me what the pistols were capable of and what to expect.
I learnt that price had nothing to do with performance.
The most expensive ($22 box in 1998) was the best group by a whisker from the
least expensive ($3 a box).
It taught me about to clean or not to clean, barrel length vs harmonics.
It helped develop and test barrel compensators and there effect.
Having done it, learnt a lot, do I need to do it anymore..
Maybe a little only, prior to the next Masters Games.

Thanks a lot!

Ok, I will make a grip block of wood and use that for fastening.
Fixed bench is ok? No need to think flexibility for recoil?

Interesting to see what is the barrel’s accuracy after 30 years. The pistol's manual says that it was at the factory 18,8mm (avg).
Don’t know how much used and how maintained.

And of course, nice to know which ammunitions it likes.

Just to throw another WTF into the equation: With both my S&W 41 and TOZ 35 (Ransom Rest testing), accuracy improved after minimal fire-lapping.

i think the question (that interests me too) is if a toz35 can be tested from a FIXED clamping with a vice, not a ransom rest (that moves under recoil)

Azmodan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:55 am i think the question (that interests me too) is if a toz35 can be tested from a FIXED clamping with a vice, not a ransom rest (that moves under recoil)

Yes, that was my question :)

Some benches seems fixed and some benches has moving or sliding parts.

Example this seems quite fix but never knows if there are something sliding recoil parts.
Target pistol is clamped from grip block:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1zLinF0W4&t=2s

Cvb wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:14 am
Yes, that was my question :)

Some benches seems fixed and some benches has moving or sliding parts.

Example this seems quite fix but never knows if there are something sliding recoil parts.
Target pistol is clamped from grip block:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1zLinF0W4&t=2s

I’d like to know where all the brass is going from that Pardini in the YouTube clip. They seem to have rigged up some sort of catcher that dumps it into the plastic Tupperware pot at the back. I

Interesting that a Ransom type rest is not used. Maybe with low power .22 rounds it’s not necessary. I’d like to know from someone with experience whether a Ransom type rest is essential for centrefire rounds or if a fixed grip can be equally effective/accurate for testing more powerful ammunition.

Bob

For centrefire some form of articulated rest ie. Ransom is needed.
In a fixed rest, the force required to hold centrefire recoil would likley damage your frame.

David M wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:58 am For centrefire some form of articulated rest ie. Ransom is needed.
In a fixed rest, the force required to hold centrefire recoil would likley damage your frame.

Ahh. Thanks David, but if the clamping is arranged such that the barrel axis goes through a rigid support, there will be recoil/reaction but it will be straight back without any couple trying to lift the barrel. I concede that that would be difficult with revolvers because of the hammer location and many semi-autos as allowance has to be made for the slide travel which generally wraps around the barrel. However, ISSF-style target C/F semi-autos such as the GSP, TriAce, Pardini could be rigged with the back of the frame up against a solid support as their slide travels are “internal”, i.e. within the length of the action. Some form of hard but resilient buffer would be required between frame and support to avoid damage to the former.

Bob

If you have access to a Ransom Rest, Andrew Berryhill at Precision Target Pistol Grips can 3D print inserts to fit. He has the internal cavity dimensions to fit the frames of all sorts of pistols in order to make his grips, so it's not a huge deal to make an insert:

https://www.precisiontargetpistolgrips. ... nsert.html

After seeing two different Toz frames, I would conclude that there is a wide variance in them. Ransom inserts might have to be altered for best fit.

Andrew would have had to deal with that as well for his grips, and I may even recall him grumbling about it at one point.

Rover wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:47 pm Just to throw another WTF into the equation: With both my S&W 41 and TOZ 35 (Ransom Rest testing), accuracy improved after minimal fire-lapping.

Hi Rover,

WRT your WTF, is it possible that all the “minimal” fire-lapping did was to clean out the barrel? What compound did you use on the rounds for the lapping?

Bob

I used fine valve grinding compound smeared on a piece of 1/4 inch brass stock. I used CCI Standard Velocity ammo and ground the bullets into the grit with the flat handle of a mill file. I then wiped off the excess and shot ten rounds, cleaned the bore and shot ten more.

Before and after testing showed some accuracy improvement with the TOZ, and a much larger improvement on the S&W barrel. It was worth the trouble. I also did this with a S&W M29 .44 Mag. This removed a constriction where the barrel screwed into the frame and left a beautiful polish.