Ammo testing/TOZ

[R]

How does one ammo test for their TOZ-35s? Ransom Rest with "home carved" inserts? Vise? I find it extremely difficult and unreliable to test off sandbags? Thanks.

.43155.0

[Greg Derr]

Remove the grips and forestock. I have made a rubber spacer to put in place of the forestock, the screw is passed trought the piece of rubber, which is radiator hose. I use blank Ransom inserts with a V slot cut horizontal about 3/8 inch deep. The cut should be in about the middle between the two screws to allow for the barrel to be evenly squeezed when tight. Be sure your groove is not too low, which would allow the frame tang to touch your base.
I have tested many TOZ's like this with good results. A good toz group is 15mm to 25mm edge to edge 10 shots @ 50 meters. Greg Derr
.43165.43155

[R]

Greg-
Thanks for the great response!!! A couple of other questions. Does the radiator hose go circumferentially around the barrel? Is the fit of the hose around the barrel tight (i.e. O.D. barrel=I.D. hose)? Does the RR insert clamp the barrel itself or the hose? How close to the breech does the edge of the insert clamp the barrel? And last, what ammo, if there is one, has consistently shown the best accuracy out of the TOZ-35? Thanks for your patience with all of these questions.
Rich

.43178.43165

[Spencer C]

I suspect that this procedure would dampen out the harmonics present when the pistol is hand-held and the forend in place (i.e. match conditions). If the Ransom Rest blanks are available it might be better to use them (?)
Additionally:
1) a chronograph set up in front of the Ransom Rest during testing might well reveal some interesting comparisons between group size and velocity variations,
2) try all sorts of ammo. Price is not always a guide to accuracy, and
3) if you find your 'best' ammo, note the batch # and seek this out for competition use.
Happy experimenting!
Spencer

.43180.43165

[R.Tagore]

: How does one ammo test for their TOZ-35s? Ransom Rest with "home carved" inserts? Vise? I find it extremely difficult and unreliable to test off sandbags? Thanks.
I test my Toz35 with a variety of ammo from Tenex to CCI and all the grups at 50 yards average from 1 1/4" to 1 3/4". best group Midas. There is probably only 2 or 3 people in the world who can benefit from that. We are not talking rifle shoting here.
.43182.43155

[Sandy Eisele]

There is a tape on international shooting and it shows RWS testing ammo in a lab. they take the wood off the Toz and clamp the barrel in a vice with rubber pads. they tested all the pistols this way, including air.
sandy741-at-comcast.net.43189.43155

[Greg Derr]

Rich; The hose is used as a spacer for the forestock screw, not around the barrel. The scrwe which holds the forestock also holds the trigger mechanism. You need that screw in place. The hose prevents the trigger mechanism from moving verticle to the point of not functioning. You will understand better once to take the forestock of. As for harmonics, this is moot since the barrel does not "float" in the forestock. There is also the screw which ties the barrel to the trigger mechanism.
The inserts at the RWS factory were lead in a machinists vice. While we were shooting a match(US Team) we tested our guns. This device is typical for testing most European guns since many guns are tested.
Using a Ransome rest would be impractical( too much time) I have a 75 pound Bridgeport vice I know use for testing many European guns in particular the ones without a frame tang like Pardini, Benelli, FAS.
As for ammo. One poster is correct. Price does not always equal best group, but the odds are with the better ammo. Take Tenex for instance, you may find one lot out of ten of a lesser brand which is better, But in the long run Tenex is hard to beat. I had two cases of Standard (brown box) which shot 12mm groups in my TOZ. Once that was gone, that was it. Tenex will shoot very well even for a bad lot, which is rare.
You can get some good groups from other Eley products as well. Economics is a leading factor here. Also you may want to shoot Tenex in "big" matches and a lesser brand in club matches. You need to evaluate that for yourself.
If you are a 520-540 shooter Tenex might not be needed. I found that the differnce in ammo when shooting 560-570 did make a defference.
good luck. Greg Derr
.43190.43178

[R]

.43209.43190

[sam]

Dear R., or anyone,
If you really want to know the right machine and the right way to test the ammo group please post your e-mail box because I do not know how to show the picture in Scott website. I will send the machine picture for you.
regards,
sam

.43222.43155

[Mako]

After Bill Demarest shot his World Record in Milan they tested the Toz he used (borrowed from the US Team Pistol Coach). The free Fiocchi ammo that he used for his world record, Match plus Finals, tested as the worst of all the ammo they tested ... but it was still good enough for a record (that still stands after three years). Bill thought that the this relatively poor ammo might have cost him a point or two ....
The point is ... free pistol ammo makes very little difference in most of our scores. Don Nygord says the same on a note that accompanies the Toz's that he sells. Most of us use one of the better "brands" for the bigger matches ... just for piece of mind. Fit/ejection is often a more important question ...
Eley is tight in my Toz, SK Jagd fits well ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.43233.43165

[Slo cat]

<center><img src="http://www.oslopk.com/images/testrigg1.jpg"></center>

slocat-at-aol.com.43247.43165

[Stan Pace]

Greg,
I cut an Ransom Rest blank insert for my TOZ by just removing the grip and cutting the area for the exposed frame. In order to open the action without taking it out of the rest, I also cut an area to allow the lever to swing forward and back.
This seemed to work great. I tested some years ago with it, and this particular TOZ liked RWS R-50 better than anything else, even Tenex. Every lot of RWS was better than Tenex even though Tenex had a superior standard deviation. I chronographed all the shots, too.
The best lot I found would put ten shots in a group I could completely cover with a dime. I bought all of it that Neal Johnson had. But, with this TOZ even the worst RWS R-50 groups (with other lots) were about the size of a nickle, maybe slightly larger.

.43249.43165

[R. Tagore]

Mako is right on his comments. For all the rest of you 560 or lower shooters, stop wasting time with all your accuracy tests. If you wanna improve your FP scores use all that time in the range and dry firing
.43379.43233

[John Robinson]

I have a TOZ 49 revolver (7.62 Nagant Short) used for traget pistol shooting. I am interested in contacting others who have one of these excellent traget revolvers.
jrobinson-at-hunterlink.net.au.44750.43155