TargetTalk

Outdoor season will be quickly upon us. My son uses a 10-50 rear sight on a kk500 with the stock extension. He likes the sight but its A LOT of clicks to go from 50 yds/m to a 100yds. Does anyone have a recommendation for a ladder for the front sight to reduce the site adjustments he's having to make now.

Also, are there any cons to using a ladder between 50' 3P Indoor, 50m 3P Outdoor, 50/100 yd Prone Outdoor.

Thanks,

Red

There aren't any disadvantages that I know of, providing the ladder isn't loose. However, the only true Full-bore style ladder specifically for a smallbore I know of was made by RPA (Palma action makers). That was 25 years ago, and I've seen just one here in the UK. All the full-bore ladder foresight I know (RPA, Central, HPS) are built into a 0.75in diameter barrel band not a smallbore dovetail. EDIT If you want a 30mm beer can sight, I think the Riles has a ladder. I'm not sure if it would fit to a KK500 tube.

There are some alternatives. There is a British-made foresight tunnel that self adjusts between 50m and 100 yards. It's derived from the old 1960s Womack. You can have 18mm or 22mm, with/without a spirit level, and to suit long or short sight bases. The maker is Barry Nesom. I have his phone number somewhere. Here in Britain our indoor ranges are mostly 25 yards. I've never seen anyone adjust at the foresight between 25-50. It takes 12-ish clicks on a standard rearsight (2 minutes on a 10/50), so the sight only goes up 0.5mm. Everyone just clicks and adjusts the cheekpiece.

I've never seen anyone use a ladder foresight to adjust for 3P though. These are meant to compensate for range in one position so your head doesn't move, not different positions, where your head has to move. Front and rear raisers are normal though. It's expensive if you have multiple sight sets, but a few raiser blocks aren't that dear. You'd still need raisers for the rearsight; a 10/50 has plenty of elevation adjustment, but not enough for some 3P shooters. And if you stack raisers at the back, why not stack at the front too?

The previous poster is right on. I'll add my 2 cents as someone who uses a front sight ladder for prone 50', 50y - 100y. I use it for 2 reasons; 1 - I don't like the idea or act of doing all that rear sight clicking, and 2 - I don't want to adjust my stock between ranges. Neither reason is exceptionally good, but I had the resources to do what seemed best.

Where can you get a ladder?
> Riles is an option. In my experience, he doesn't respond well to emails - best to call him using the phone number on his website. Riles makes a dovetail base, though it may not clear the KK500 extension.

> Phoenix Precision is another option. They make all manner of ladder heights, so with the right ladder (tall enough with teeth also extending very close to the sight) you could use this for 3p and 50' - 100yds. They may be able to provide a dovetail mount.

> do a Google search for ladder front sights - there are others

> A competent machine shop could make you an adapter for nearly any ladder you obtain.

I personally have a 30mm Right Sight ladder connected to a 1" diameter ladder base clamped onto an uptagrafft tunner tube. No dovetails used in my system. This sight and base weight about 6 ounces - not light. Howard Pitts of Pitts Precision Rifles made the base for me. His contact info is ph. 931.993.6122 or htpitts4@yahoo.com

Maybe use a thin riser block under the front sight for 3-p / 50m and then move it when shooting 100 yards?

2 step base, but that depends on how front sight is attached, etc.

1813benny wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:42 am Maybe use a thin riser block under the front sight for 3-p / 50m and then move it when shooting 100 yards?

2 step base, but that depends on how front sight is attached, etc.

Ken,

Even a 4mm raiser would over adjust between 50 and 100 I think. But changing from say an 8mm raiser to a 6mm (or 10mm to 8mm etc) would put you in the black.

You could use a stepped base if you D & T the tube. Would a Walter foresight fit a stepped block though? Most over here are sized for the old 14-18xx Anschutz.

My vote is raiser blocks for 3P and a Nesom tunnel for 50-100.

The newer Walther front sights are 11mm (Centra), so it would fit on most step bases.

Any of the solutions will work....boils down to preference and the wallet.

Best Regards,
Ken

1813benny wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 11:20 am The newer Walther front sights are 11mm (Centra), so it would fit on most step bases.

Best Regards,
Ken

Oh, can you get an 11mm/1913 stepped base. That's handy. We only seem to have the older dovetail, probably because Nesom tunnels are popular. Barry also makes dovetailed tubes, rather than D&T for a block so there's no less demand.

Regards

Tim

Or, count the revolutions. It is easier for me to count 2 and a half revolutions than however many clicks it is.

Centra Score HR is adjustable for height. You could tweak it in for 50 yds, and use the lower sight you have for 100. Obviously it requires the purchase of another iris as well. The advantage is you could set it up closer than a ladder, which is typically 6' or so per step.