TargetTalk

If I ever have the detailed spirit of those archers, my mental aspect of 10M AP would be artistically elevated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO9rw9k2yfw

They seem not keen on the score, but proper execution of each step.

Ritualistic execution of each step to perfection.

Where it hits the target, seems to be second thought.

The score matters little. If the technique is present, the arrow will find the target......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSmT7Ao ... eDEQUINCEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZXPEXc ... =Whitebelt

It is crazier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZXPEXcLbu0
Check this. They can hit the target - once they are in position - and in the dark.
Let that sink in. IN THE DARK.
They do not have to "See" the target.
Makes me wonder can we hit 10 w/o seeing the target - just by "spirit" of it as they suggested?
That clearly would be a completely new way of precision shooting.
Just wow.

Makes me wonder can we hit 10 w/o seeing the target - just by "spirit" of it as they suggested?

Substitute "muscle memory from more thousands of repetitions than you can imagine" for "spirit," and I believe you've stumbled onto the truth.

nmondal wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 am It is crazier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZXPEXcLbu0
Check this. They can hit the target - once they are in position - and in the dark.
Let that sink in. IN THE DARK.
They do not have to "See" the target.
Makes me wonder can we hit 10 w/o seeing the target - just by "spirit" of it as they suggested?
That clearly would be a completely new way of precision shooting.
Just wow.

My understanding is that Kyudo practitioners are not all that concerned with hitting the center of the target. If they do care, it is enough that they hit the target. They apparently record only hit or miss of the entire target. What is more important is the technique involved in preparing for and making the shot. The repetitive aspect of practicing the technique certainly does pattern the body creating muscle memory which is, of course, a benefit of repetition and practice. But, muscle memory is not the same as controlling, or settling the mind to the point of no thought. For those involved in 10 meter air pistol where score counts for far more than just hitting the target in Kyudo, the intrusion of thought(s) into the process will send the shot off the mark. It's those little thoughts intruding (some call it the mind wandering) that lead to the shot being released with imprecision. Bringing mind and body into harmony as One allows, in the terms of Kyudo, the arrow to find it's way to the target.

No thought at the moment of release.....

"allows, in the terms of Kyudo, the arrow to find it's way to the target."

Pardon me for being an incurable Occidental, but that is sheer nonsense!

william wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:01 am "allows, in the terms of Kyudo, the arrow to find it's way to the target."

Pardon me for being an incurable Occidental, but that is sheer nonsense!

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us, William.

seamaster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:18 am They seem not keen on the score, but proper execution of each step.

Ritualistic execution of each step to perfection.

Where it hits the target, seems to be second thought.

When testing for the next "Dan" level a candidate may fail to make the level sought even though their score on the target was excellent. It's the process, the technique, that is more important than the score. To the Westerner the score is usually central where that's not the case with those following Kyudo. It's just a different way of viewing the world and one's place in it.

A similar kind of discussion occasionally comes up in rated chess where a player's ELO rating is central. With rated chess winning is all important. One can play a completely beautiful, creative game and then near the end, due to tiredness or lack of concentration for a moment, the player can blunder and lose in a few moves.

There are some top level air pistol competitors who are poetic with their technique. Others not so much. They have all scored well to be seen in event finals. The issue for me with my shooting is to become better in technique. If my scores improve (so far they have in relation to some other factors) that's a nice addition to the experience.

"With rated chess winning is all important. One can play a completely beautiful, creative game and then near the end, due to tiredness or lack of concentration for a moment, the player can blunder and lose in a few moves."

That describes a failure of technique but avoiding those words. Same thing if Steinbeck, tired after a day's hard work writing, churned out a final chapter of gibberish. The Grapes of Wrath wouldn't be The Grapes of Wrath, would it? It isn't only the beauty of the technique; it's the ability to sustain it to the end.

william wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:19 pm "With rated chess winning is all important. One can play a completely beautiful, creative game and then near the end, due to tiredness or lack of concentration for a moment, the player can blunder and lose in a few moves."

That describes a failure of technique but avoiding those words. Same thing if Steinbeck, tired after a day's hard work writing, churned out a final chapter of gibberish. The Grapes of Wrath wouldn't be The Grapes of Wrath, would it? It isn't only the beauty of the technique; it's the ability to sustain it to the end.

A blunder that results in a forced mate causes a loss of a game. A final chapter to a novel that may or may not meet with reader or critic approval does not result in a loss as with a game, be that chess or shooting, where win and loss can, and are, clearly defined and ascertainable. What was the point that you were trying to make with your failed analogy?

Never mind. No more analogies.

Keep believing inanimate objects can will themselves to do things, like finding their way to the target.

william wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:10 pm Never mind. No more analogies.

Keep believing inanimate objects can will themselves to do things, like finding their way to the target.

Only when they are animated by the One, William.

william wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:01 am "allows, in the terms of Kyudo, the arrow to find it's way to the target."

Pardon me for being an incurable Occidental, but that is sheer nonsense!

Is it?

One of the more popular western sayings is that "He's so good at [insert activity here] that he can do it with his eyes closed". Isn't that what this is?

I think you're looking too much at the "martial" part, and not enough at the "art" part. As with most martial arts; the goal is less about the activity itself, as it is the spiritual development or growth that the activity provides. Not an easy thing for westerners to understand, as I think we tend to be more end-result oriented than process oriented.