I know this has been gone over before, but would somebody please explain how quota slots are allocated? In plain English please, because I can't understand "Who's on first?"
politt-at-1st counsel.com.42640.0
quota slots?
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Marilyn
Re: quota slots?
This is how I understand it.
Each event at a World Cup/World Championships/Regional Games (like the Pan
Am) are designated a fixed number of Quota spots to be awarded. The link below
shows that information by event. For example Santo Domingo is listed twice for
Free Pistol, so 2 quotas will be awarded.
However, there are qualification limits by both country and athlete. For example,
China already has 2 FP quota spots which I believe is the limit, therefore, no matter
how any Chinese shooter places in Free Pistol at any event awarding a quota spot,
he will be skipped.
Another restriction is that a shooter may only earn one quota spot for the upcoming
Olympics. Therefore, since Daryl Szarenski already earned an Air Pistol quota spot
at the World Championships, he was skipped over for the quota spot. The change
in this ruling from previous Olympics is that it used to be a shooter could only earn 1
quota spot per event but now it is per all events or per Olympics.
I understand that in the past there was an occasion where the 12th place shooter
earned a quota spot at the last qualifying event because the previous shooters and or
countries had reached their limit.
If I've got it wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.
...M
mumby-at-cips.ca.42644.42640
Each event at a World Cup/World Championships/Regional Games (like the Pan
Am) are designated a fixed number of Quota spots to be awarded. The link below
shows that information by event. For example Santo Domingo is listed twice for
Free Pistol, so 2 quotas will be awarded.
However, there are qualification limits by both country and athlete. For example,
China already has 2 FP quota spots which I believe is the limit, therefore, no matter
how any Chinese shooter places in Free Pistol at any event awarding a quota spot,
he will be skipped.
Another restriction is that a shooter may only earn one quota spot for the upcoming
Olympics. Therefore, since Daryl Szarenski already earned an Air Pistol quota spot
at the World Championships, he was skipped over for the quota spot. The change
in this ruling from previous Olympics is that it used to be a shooter could only earn 1
quota spot per event but now it is per all events or per Olympics.
I understand that in the past there was an occasion where the 12th place shooter
earned a quota spot at the last qualifying event because the previous shooters and or
countries had reached their limit.
If I've got it wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.
...M
mumby-at-cips.ca.42644.42640
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PETE
Re: quota slots?
From an article by USAS after Jason Turner won the gold in AP:
"By winning the gold, Turner clinched a very needed quota slot, but also took himself out of the running for one in the sport pistol event. Considering teammate Darryl Szarenski (Seale, Ala.) has already secured his one quota position, as well, it looks as if the U.S. Men’s Pistol Team will only be able to compete for its remaining slots in rapid fire."
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"By winning the gold, Turner clinched a very needed quota slot, but also took himself out of the running for one in the sport pistol event. Considering teammate Darryl Szarenski (Seale, Ala.) has already secured his one quota position, as well, it looks as if the U.S. Men’s Pistol Team will only be able to compete for its remaining slots in rapid fire."
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Stan Pace
quota quagmire
: This is how I understand it.
If I understand this correctly, this is a perfect example of why the quota system doesn't work very well. And, here's why I say that.
Suppose Daryl was firing world record scores in AP, FP and RF. What the current system disallows is him ringing up a quota for his country in each event, and consequentially (if no one else earned the quotas), it would prohibit him from competing in all three events. That's plain wrong.
The Olympics should be about finding the best shooters on the planet *in each event and without regard for multiple event qualifiers* and letting actual competition (not a quota system) decide who brings home the medals. This kind of goofy system is one reason why I agree with some who say the World Championships are more important than the Olympics. It's just a shame the funding is tied to the Olympics.
.42649.42644
If I understand this correctly, this is a perfect example of why the quota system doesn't work very well. And, here's why I say that.
Suppose Daryl was firing world record scores in AP, FP and RF. What the current system disallows is him ringing up a quota for his country in each event, and consequentially (if no one else earned the quotas), it would prohibit him from competing in all three events. That's plain wrong.
The Olympics should be about finding the best shooters on the planet *in each event and without regard for multiple event qualifiers* and letting actual competition (not a quota system) decide who brings home the medals. This kind of goofy system is one reason why I agree with some who say the World Championships are more important than the Olympics. It's just a shame the funding is tied to the Olympics.
.42649.42644
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David Levene
Re: quota quagmire
: If I understand this correctly, this is a perfect example of why the quota system doesn't work very well. And, here's why I say that.
: Suppose Daryl was firing world record scores in AP, FP and RF. What the current system disallows is him ringing up a quota for his country in each event, and consequentially (if no one else earned the quotas), it would prohibit him from competing in all three events. That's plain wrong.
Sorry but you are wrong. Once a shooter is at the games he can enter any other event for which he has a qualifying score. See rule Q.4.2.2 which says:-
"Each shooter, however, who has been entered in one event in a quota place by his NOC can be entered as a double starter in other events if he has also obtained the minimum qualification scores in the other events. NOCs are not allowed to enter more then two (2)shooters in any event."
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42651.42649
: Suppose Daryl was firing world record scores in AP, FP and RF. What the current system disallows is him ringing up a quota for his country in each event, and consequentially (if no one else earned the quotas), it would prohibit him from competing in all three events. That's plain wrong.
Sorry but you are wrong. Once a shooter is at the games he can enter any other event for which he has a qualifying score. See rule Q.4.2.2 which says:-
"Each shooter, however, who has been entered in one event in a quota place by his NOC can be entered as a double starter in other events if he has also obtained the minimum qualification scores in the other events. NOCs are not allowed to enter more then two (2)shooters in any event."
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42651.42649
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Stan Pace
Re: quota quagmire
: : Suppose Daryl was firing world record scores in AP, FP and RF. What the current system disallows is him ringing up a quota for his country in each event, and consequentially (if no one else earned the quotas), it would prohibit him from competing in all three events. That's plain wrong.
: Sorry but you are wrong. Once a shooter is at the games he can enter any other event for which he has a qualifying score. See rule Q.4.2.2 which says:-
David,
I think you missed my point about the quota places not being earned by another shooter, and that seems to be the real issue.
What is the logic behind a shooter only being allowed to earn one slot in one event? Is that the correct procedure now?
.42654.42651
: Sorry but you are wrong. Once a shooter is at the games he can enter any other event for which he has a qualifying score. See rule Q.4.2.2 which says:-
David,
I think you missed my point about the quota places not being earned by another shooter, and that seems to be the real issue.
What is the logic behind a shooter only being allowed to earn one slot in one event? Is that the correct procedure now?
.42654.42651
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Mako
Stan ...
The idea is that in order that the powerhouse nations don't dominate the Olympics ... they can only have two qualifing representatives per shooting event ... (except, as David has pointed out, once you are at the Olympics in say Air, you can also shoot in the Free Pistol match, as long as you have shot a Minimum Qualifing Score in that event).
Yes, the World Championships might be a sterner test for that particular day... but the Olympics require that you shoot very well over a longer period ... you have to shoot a MQS and then qualify to represent your country in that event. Jason and Daryl have earned Quota Slots for the US ... they have not yet qualified to represent the US at Athens. That qualification test will involve other matches ... Fall (?), Spring Selection matches and next years Nationals.
For countries like China, with so many top shooters, beating your fellow country men so that you can go to the Olympics might be a sterner test then winning a quota slot ...
As some people say ... there is only ONE MATCH ... the Olympics ... everything else is just practice ....
I think the World Cup should be a series ... with a Champion crowned at the end of the season ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.42655.42649
Yes, the World Championships might be a sterner test for that particular day... but the Olympics require that you shoot very well over a longer period ... you have to shoot a MQS and then qualify to represent your country in that event. Jason and Daryl have earned Quota Slots for the US ... they have not yet qualified to represent the US at Athens. That qualification test will involve other matches ... Fall (?), Spring Selection matches and next years Nationals.
For countries like China, with so many top shooters, beating your fellow country men so that you can go to the Olympics might be a sterner test then winning a quota slot ...
As some people say ... there is only ONE MATCH ... the Olympics ... everything else is just practice ....
I think the World Cup should be a series ... with a Champion crowned at the end of the season ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.42655.42649
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David Levene
Re: quota quagmire
: What is the logic behind a shooter only being allowed to earn one slot in one event? Is that the correct procedure now?
I think that the system has been modified to stop one "Super-Shooter" from overly biasing the entry.
If, for example you had a nation with one shooter who could earn a quota place for his country in Free Pistol, Air Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol.
His country could then send him in the quota place for, for example, Free Pistol and also double enter him Air and Rapid. They could also enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores, in the quota places for the other events. The result could be that the nation enters one good shooter and two lower level shooters.
The current system means that a nation would need 3 quota place level shooters before they can send 3 shooters. On the assumption that nations will send thir best shooters, this system ensures that more of the World's best shooters attend the Olympics.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42656.42654
I think that the system has been modified to stop one "Super-Shooter" from overly biasing the entry.
If, for example you had a nation with one shooter who could earn a quota place for his country in Free Pistol, Air Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol.
His country could then send him in the quota place for, for example, Free Pistol and also double enter him Air and Rapid. They could also enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores, in the quota places for the other events. The result could be that the nation enters one good shooter and two lower level shooters.
The current system means that a nation would need 3 quota place level shooters before they can send 3 shooters. On the assumption that nations will send thir best shooters, this system ensures that more of the World's best shooters attend the Olympics.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42656.42654
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David Levene
Re: Stan ...
: I think the World Cup should be a series ... with a Champion crowned at the end of the season ...
Like the World Cup Finals(which have a factor of 12 in World Ranking calculations)?
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42657.42655
Like the World Cup Finals(which have a factor of 12 in World Ranking calculations)?
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42657.42655
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Stan Pace
Re: quota quagmire
: His country could then send him in the quota place for, for example, Free Pistol and also double enter him Air and Rapid. They could also enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores, in the quota places for the other events. The result could be that the nation enters one good shooter and two lower level shooters.
That explanation makes some sense. But, isn't the solution for "enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores" to simply raise the MQS?
I mean, for example, the MAP MQS is 563, FP is 540 and RF is 573. Realistically, if that's the best a shooter can do, that shooter's trip to the Olympics is just for fun because serious medal hopefuls will be almost 20 points higher than all those MQS's.
.42662.42656
That explanation makes some sense. But, isn't the solution for "enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores" to simply raise the MQS?
I mean, for example, the MAP MQS is 563, FP is 540 and RF is 573. Realistically, if that's the best a shooter can do, that shooter's trip to the Olympics is just for fun because serious medal hopefuls will be almost 20 points higher than all those MQS's.
.42662.42656
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PW
Re: quota quagmire
With the quota places the IOC controls how many shooters will be competing. On their whim they can cut the quota places (and have done so regularly). Take away the quota places and you take away their control. Also to be fair if you go just on a higher MQS then there will too many shooters for too few spots. There is no disadvantage to a shooter who wins one quota place and therefore cannot win another. He can be entered as a double starter, and shoot 2 (or 3?) matches if his country decides he's good enough. The quota place then goes to the next in line. This can allow for a greater variety of countries to particiapte in the shooting Olympics.
If the country is "good enough" they will get all the quota places they can. If not, they won't. It's a competition after all. Don't forget that there are hardship quota places available for some countries that have great scoring shooters that didn't quite get a quota.
: : His country could then send him in the quota place for, for example, Free Pistol and also double enter him Air and Rapid. They could also enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores, in the quota places for the other events. The result could be that the nation enters one good shooter and two lower level shooters.
: That explanation makes some sense. But, isn't the solution for "enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores" to simply raise the MQS?
: I mean, for example, the MAP MQS is 563, FP is 540 and RF is 573. Realistically, if that's the best a shooter can do, that shooter's trip to the Olympics is just for fun because serious medal hopefuls will be almost 20 points higher than all those MQS's.
.42664.42662
If the country is "good enough" they will get all the quota places they can. If not, they won't. It's a competition after all. Don't forget that there are hardship quota places available for some countries that have great scoring shooters that didn't quite get a quota.
: : His country could then send him in the quota place for, for example, Free Pistol and also double enter him Air and Rapid. They could also enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores, in the quota places for the other events. The result could be that the nation enters one good shooter and two lower level shooters.
: That explanation makes some sense. But, isn't the solution for "enter other shooters, who may only have achieved the pitifully low qualifying scores" to simply raise the MQS?
: I mean, for example, the MAP MQS is 563, FP is 540 and RF is 573. Realistically, if that's the best a shooter can do, that shooter's trip to the Olympics is just for fun because serious medal hopefuls will be almost 20 points higher than all those MQS's.
.42664.42662
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Mako
Re: quota quagmire
The low-ish MQS also allow shooters from the "smaller" countries to participate ... even though that obviously doesn't add to the competition ... and it creates situations where you see a swimmer in the Olympics that needs to have a life guard walking along side the pool! :-( But it also allowed us to have Eddie The Eagle in the Olympics .... :-)
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.42665.42664
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.42665.42664
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Stan Pace
Re: quota quagmire
:But it also allowed us to have Eddie The Eagle in the Olympics .... :-)
I remember him. It made for a great TV story and that was about all!
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I remember him. It made for a great TV story and that was about all!
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David Levene
Re: quota quagmire
: :But it also allowed us to have Eddie The Eagle in the Olympics .... :-)
: I remember him. It made for a great TV story and that was about all!
Most of us Brits are trying to forget him.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42673.42670
: I remember him. It made for a great TV story and that was about all!
Most of us Brits are trying to forget him.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.42673.42670